RORO shed

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

My only concern with doing that would be it radiating heat during the night and affecting imaging, most of the imaging done here is to the north, the logical side to build a heat bank wall.

Dammit ! I work to the South, my North is almost useless. But I don't have a warm room anyway.
Oh well, them's the breaks...

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Ah well, given the warm room would be mainly used a couple of nights a month for imagint (Who knows, I might find myself really unpopular with my mates wife and it gets used a lot more than I would anticipate) the cost to heat it will probably not be that great. I may still be able to design in some passive solar concepts that would not damage imaging.

Of more worry would be having to tell my wife and mum to use electric heat a couple of times a month to keep smoke from our wood fire away.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Well, unfortunately this weeks budget has hit us appreciably hard. No matter if you call it middle class welfare or not, the Family Tax benefit B was actually pretty significant to us, if you follow the Howard Government's reasoning that it was placing a value on a previously unvalued activity (That of one parent being at home and raising children) I can only assume that Mr Abbot and Hockey place a value of zero on my wifes contribution to raising the next generation (My son is about to turn six) Still buggered if I know how we can get her into any useful and productive work as where we are, a school bus is not available so she has to drive him to school and back each day and she has to be home for him when as well, not sure if they reckon that six years old is a good and self sufficient age where he is OK to be home alone for some hours every day of the week. Pretty hard to find work for her when you would have to be asking for a 10 to 2 job, local to home and not during school holidays.

All that at a time when I have to replace my work car, which in itself is going to cost me an extra $2500 or so per year because of the previous governments FBT changes. The work car is a novated lease and the FBT on that will go from 7% of the cars base value to 25% when I turn it over next week and I can not really cut the value of the car and still have it do what we need it to. I have juggled every ball under the sun in the last month to make that affordable by culling most luxury items I have been having over recent years and then had the budget take away every cent I managed to find.

Anyway, the upshot is that an extra $2500 a year (at least, I have not delved into the details to see what else might impact me) has just disappeared from my budget and most of my hobbies just got the chop. I still hope to build a nice obs but it is going to take a lot, lot longer. Hopefully I can still put in permanent piers this year. At least they are relatively cheap as I can keep the main input costs down to raw materials and do everything myself.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Argh, another potential setback to ponder while I think about how to attack this. The town I live near has had semi active plans for a highway bypass for years. Vicroads have recently released some animated concept "Fly through" videos on youtube. One of the proposals (I am probably concerned about nothing, that option is very unlikely to get up) would have the bypass on my side of town, only a couple of KM away with a huge roundabout, and even in the animation they show it as being lit up with dozens of the standard sort of "Light everywhere" luminaires!

Knowing my luck of the last couple of years, if I grit my teeth, spend my money and build a RORO shed they will build the bypass, do it on our side of town and double our skyglow issues in a direction that is currently pretty good!

If I build and they turn it murky, is spectroscopy overly affected by skyglow? I would hate to have an expensive RORO turned into a paddock ornament and at least spectroscopy would still let me do something useful in there.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Geez, a double whammy. A pier at least is a cheaper start option till you see what happens I guess.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I probably should just ignore the issue, by my understanding the option to put it out our way is far from favored (It is much longer and more complex than the other side of town) and even if it goes that way, who knows how long it will be before it is built.

I have however landed myself with a bit of an issue for doing it this year. Even if I get fencing in to be able to do my piers without worrying about ponies wrecking them it is going to be too wet soon to get a concrete truck in to where I would put them. Perhaps I should just muscle up and get the materials and fire up the little mixer I have in the shed! But there would be plenty of loads through that to make up the piers.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Ok, I am a long way from building but my plans are still festering away.

Can anyone comment on the use of a regulated DC power supply to run mounts and heaters? Particularly when paired with an ups to smooth over any short power interruptions (We get them from time to time)

I am thinking in terms of the 20A lab supplies from the likes of Jaycar. I am inclined to get one sooner than later and in my case being visual, would probably run the mount from it too as the worst a bump would produce is a need to realign the mount to continue observing, rather than a loss of track and guide star in AP.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

I just use a converted PC power supply, free. Puts out 5v, 12v with plenty of amps available. I use the 5v to slow run fans, 12 v for mount, fast fans.
UPS are quite cheap for smaller models, work out your load and buy something with a bit of headroom for expansion and surges. Remember though that UPS are normally designed to allow a graceful shutdown on a PC, not for longer run periods unless you buy bigger and\or with external battery packs.
(My wife is in the UPS Industry over here in NZ, clever lady, very clever.)

[The_bluester (Paul)]

A PC psu I did not think of, I might even have a spare. Have to work out which pins trigger it out of standby though.

I would think an ups which could run it all for half an hour would be good, if power is out for longer than that then loosing an image is the least of our concerns.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

A PC psu I did not think of, I might even have a spare. Have to work out which pins trigger it out of standby though.

I would think an ups which could run it all for half an hour would be good, if power is out for longer than that then loosing an image is the least of our concerns.

Plenty of circuits, google is your friend. I used a big resistor to trick the load sensor. Use a 400 watt model, plenty of amps to spare. I was using mine as a workshop power supply previously. You could also use a 12volt wall charger. Some of the older ones are quite grunty. I'm using a 13.6 Laptop pwr supply for the mount. About the size of a pack of cigs, output about 8 amps, strapped to the side of the pier. I work in IT so those sorts of things are all over the place. I just check the 'chuck out trolley' each day to see whats around and as I also add to the trolley I get first dibs mostly .
Actually my Colleagues ask me if I can use bits about to be chucked out now. They know my predeliction.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

My recent issue is that I don't have any 12V supplies over 1A, plenty for my mount even slewing at full speed on both axes but nowhere near enough for the corrector heater in an SCT. It just pulls the volts down and the controller cuts out.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I do like to complicate my life.

While out walking today it occurred to me that after filling it (with appropriate boxing up to install piers into un disturbed soil) an old dam on our property might be a better obs site.

It would not be completely filled, so would have part of the old dam bank which is planted with shrubs to give far better protection from car headlights than any other spot on the property. Though some drains would have to be installed to avoid flooding.
It still has views down to about 30 degrees in all directions.
It is further from and protected from house lights.
It is not visible from the roads.

On the minus side is that the piers would have a ridiculous mass of concrete set through the fill into virgin ground so would cost more, and filling it to a suitable level and compacting it would be time consuming and somewhat costly, but it is currently a dead space so I do not have to carve out an otherwise useful area to build on.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

OK, more ideas floating around. Inspired by another thread in here.

I have been pondering the best location for a scope shed for quite some time, and I am still not settled.

I have an existing large shed, if a good wooden platform was built to make a mezzanine floor in that shed with a projecting "second story" room built on it, would it be possible to build something like that which would be stable enough for AP? I am sure it would be fine for visual but my concern would be that it would suffer from vibration issues from people moving about the floor.

If I could locate it somewhere that it did not destroy the usefulness of my existing shed, would a concrete column down to a below ground anchor point be a better idea for an AP pier? And how big would that need to be?

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Seen plenty of build stories on CloudyNights where they have put piers down a couple of stories into the base and had isolated floors so no vibration. It all comes down to how much resource ($$$) you can muster for the build.
My pier is an old unused 10" dia concrete pipe stood on end and secured with a meter long threaded rod to the concrete slab below. Cost, about $30 in plywood, rod, nuts, washers etc and a bit of McGyver modification of some existing hardware. I could fill it with a few bags of cement to really solidify it but my floor is isolated from the pier and I have no movement or vibration problems.
I have heard of piers being made from old tree trunks ... so you might have to check the alignment now and then but it can be vibration free if you don't kick it. And a tree stump once !!
Piers through upstairs floors seem to use reinforced block columns as they would place under an upstairs fireplace. Expensive and quite large footprint. I think you can get precast coloumn units as well. Idea is good, cost becomes the real issue. Although if you can work remotely on the scope then there is no floor vibration, Downstairs computer, Teamviewer etc.
Cheapest is your old dam idea for a pier and sounds like a good location LP wise. Could make a taller pier and add a platform around it now and a shed later. Gotta think ahead
How about a side or rear addition to the shed ? Probably cheaper to build than a mezzanine floor I'd say.
Keep thinking, collect resources slowly. Been there, done that. I know the value of my OB and it isn't in $$$

[The_bluester (Paul)]

The mezzanine idea came to me recently, more than anything else inspired by a previous suggestion of my wifes to build an upstairs obs into the house or over an existing garage, the problem with both ideas being where to put a column underneath for a pier.

If I can arrange things so that I can install a pier column or columns in the shed without wrecking the utility of the shed space (It is a pretty decent sized shed) then making a second storey/mezzanine with a ROR section could be a very tenable idea, potentially cheaper or at least not much more costly than a new shed, great views with low horizons all around, leverages the existing power and data, does not take up any paddock space etc.

The issue I keep butting up against with siting an obs on the old abandoned dam area is creating 365 day access, it would take a huge amount of gravel, and it would potentially be a lot more at risk in another fire than my shed is.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

In the shed could the pier be part or integral to a partition wall ? I created a darkroom in a garage many years ago. If you pick the right position it could give better usage to the shed, Office maybe, or warm rom with PCs etc.
Floor plan with measurements required. Photos as well, inside, outside. Still quite an expensive option all the same, floor joists, beams, floor surface, pier materials, wiring, opening roof modifications.
Based on your earlier posting about budgetary restrictions, this is not a cheap option.
But dreams are free

My tinshed Ob only cost about $400 plus about $500 to modify it. Cheap chinese kitset garden shed reinforced with 6 x 1 fencing timber where required, corners, top rails. Ply and timber split roof and beleive it or not some big pallets from work supported to make the floor. Free.
Then work recarpeted with carpet tiles and I collected the leftovers, new to do the floor, again free. And the big drain pipe pier of course.
Most used tool, my battery drill and a lot of spire screws holding it all together.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

In my case, the budget constraints are more a time to do things rather than a hard constraint on the total spend (within reason of course)

Using pier columns as part of a partition downstairs is an idea I did not think of, and possibly workable.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Not knowing the width of the shed and therefore the length of the floor joists it may need some central support to stop springing anyway. The pier would not be part of the wall, just isolated within the supporting wall joists. So no transmitted vibratiion.
Would you need a permit to do the work ?
What's the roof pitch angle ?
Real work would have to be a very big 'cube' of rebo'd concrete to stabilise the pier column buried into the ground beneath it.

Start digging ...

[The_bluester (Paul)]

This is just another idea for the mix. I imagine I would need a building permit but it should not require a planning permit. The work I would be able to do myself.

Only really significant issue I can see (Assuming I decide it is feasible to begin with) is that my main shed (28 foot by 72 foot) needs a bit of work to bring it up to snuff, which I have been progressively doing for a long time. I could find myself having to complete that to bring it into a shape were I could get someone to sign off on a building permit.

I am still working on "Approval" for the very first idea (New shed near the main shed) which is largely the best compromise and keeps the astro gear well away from the rest of my tools and stuff I would not like to have near optics. A mezzanine type arrangement would need to be a well closed off room to ensure no paint thinners etc ever found their way on to mirrors.

[Jen]

Oh these man caves are just getting better and better hehehe I love them make sure u post pics Paul hey Bo I wouldn't mind reading that eBook thing you wrote if that's ok my email addy is jabryent@hotmail.com
now that my hubby's insurance policy makes him worth more once he is deceased and is now sleeping with one eye open he has come to the conclusion that a happy wife makes a happy life hahaha so I'm getting an observatory instead of a pool wooohooo I'm just not sure which way to go yet