Scope size and wow factor to the public - your experience sought.

[Cam_NSW (Cameron)]

Seeking experience from those that have shown night sky objects to members of the public. Astronomy outreach. .... that kind of thing.

Posting as one of the people that started our intended 'annual StarGrazing event' with much effort, NE NSW, Ben Lomond village 2017. Initial great success.

Then we had forced amalgamations, loss of funding, drought, fires, covid19, ... who knows what next!

Our small village community remains committed to this direction. So I need a little help for those experienced with showing the public astronomical objects.

Note, we have good dark skies. Around 22.0 on the Bortle scale as measured by a few experienced guests. Um, that is when it is not raining, hailing, snowing, or dust storms .... .




The Question:

When it comes to 'wow' factor, how significant is it in your experience when working with the public, in going from a 12" to a 14" to a 16" reflector telescope.


Note: We are talking specifically here engaging people on astronomy as they look through a telescope with their eyes. Not astro-photography capacity.

I seek to gauge how significant the extra "light bucket" factor is. Need to trade this off with other considerations like, cost, weight to set up, height of eye piece above ground, etc. Assume mount will have basic "Go To" tracking.

Experienced comments sought and valued ....


StarGrazing.

Ben Lomond, NSW.

[Rainmaker (Matt)]

Hello Cameron,
I use various scopes for outreach and have found that aperture fever is not something the visitors suffer from.
Some nights is set up a 60mm refractor and a 101mm refractor side by side yet the responses from visitors are quite similar, the key being to choose appropriate targets for the scopes.
Other times I take the 5” Tak and the 18” Dob and setup the Tak to track a planet or the moon or an open cluster and steer the 18” toward globulars or nebulae all the while giving the visitors a running commentary on the targets and also an indication of distances.
To the novice all stars seem to be the same distance away, it’s when you tell them that they are looking at the object not how it is but how it was a certain amount of time ago that they start to get a handle on distances…..

The seeing often decides how much aperture and how much magnification is “correct” for the conditions but most people attending outreach events really want to see the showpiece objects like Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, lunar craters, M42, ETA Carinae, Omega Cent etc….

Regards the WOW factor, the difference from 8 to 10 to 12 is unlikely to really matter to most first time visitors, more important is to give them context by describing what they are looking at and how the object came to be… etc

[Atmos (Colin)]

My experience has been a bit different to the general amateur astronomer. I’ve found that setting up a small 4” refractor gets a lot of wows. On other nights setting up a 12” or 16” Newtonian I’d get just as many wows BUT there would be the occasional person that would be expecting to see a bit more through a larger aperture telescope.

Setting up a 4” and 16” made this divide even more extreme. In the city there is certainly a difference between the 4” and 16” BUT it’s not as much in expectation of what some viewers imagine.

I would say there is more of a wow factor with a bigger telescope on the outset but when it comes to actually viewing things, being proficient with the telescope is more important as is the targets you choose to view than the telescope size.

[Cam_NSW (Cameron)]

Colin,

Thanks read. Very much appreciated. Getting a few views from different sources. Very much helping me gain a perspective.

[Cam_NSW (Cameron)]

Matt, similarly. Most interesting. Most helpful. Love your adopted name.

On our second StarGrazing event, we had an hour of nice clear skies, then, not just one black intense storm cell on the BOM radar, but three in a row.

Astronomy nights are rain makers. Think I can sell that in this rural grazing area!

Again, thanks for your experience. C.

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Having experienced your sky just down the road in Wandsworth whilst on a fishing trip, I can pretty much guarantee that even a modest sized perform well!

An 8" SCT on a tracking mount is great for the moon, planets and globular clusters (and sun too with an appropriate front filter)

A bigger Dob will be amazing on everything, especially the fluffy stuff - I found that the Skywatcher 14" is a great compromise. Great views, big enough to be impressive but not so large that it is unmanageable weight wise.

I would say that with that quality of site, you could easily tempt some of the larger 20"+ dob owners to venture down from Brisbane for the weekend to lend a hand (especially if it's in Trout season )

[Cam_NSW (Cameron)]

Jonathan,

Thank you so very much. Valued again, excellent feedback. Most helpful.

C.

[roddz (Rodd)]

I find an 8" Dob plenty to provide the wow factor to newbies. Although people always want to look through the biggest scope there.

[LonelySpoon (Neville)]

Cameron,
I used to do the outreach nights with WSAAG, and always took my 90mm Mak on a goto drive.

Almost every other scope was a 10"-12" Dob.

I would concentrate on Alpha Cen, offering "Free eye tests" to split the binary and explaining what they were seeing.

Other times I'd do the Moon or Jupiter/Saturn.

The others would concentrate on clusters, nebulae, etc.

I generally got a line because my scope was different, and I had fun explaining that it was "as long as the Dobs, just all folded up" at 1250mm fl. Understanding that they magnified the same helped understand what 'light bucket' meant, too.

It is good to have a range of scope types as some people are considering buying and it lets them see alternative entry points.

Neville,
LSO

[-Ephemeral- (Alex)]

I had my 4" refractor set up and tracking at an event recently. All who looked through had positive comments to share. Most other scopes present were 8-12" dobs.

The accessibility of the view is as important as the size of the scope. For a beginner who's likely going to be viewing a showpiece object, a simple viewing experience is key.

I would argue that everything around the scope (mount, eyepiece etc.) is as important as the scope itself for outreach.

[glend (Glen)]

My advice is to go with tracking mount newtonians of sufficient size to bring galaxies to view, so probably at least 10". Big Dobs are great but once someone bumps it, there goes ten minutes trying to get it back on target. And let me tell you, no amount of telling kids " don't touch the scope" will stop them from leaning into it and pushing it off view. The tracking mount, once well setup, is easy to get to return to target, and less work for the outreach tech support people.
SCTs and their like are more compact but are notorious dew magnets, meaning your going to need good heating, generally speaking a Newt will hold out longer when things get damp.
SCTs are also optically slow, faster is better in my opinion.
Have fun.

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Originally Posted by glend

And let me tell you, no amount of telling kids " don't touch the scope" will stop them from leaning into it and pushing it off view.

I always tell them they will see much better if they hold their hands behind their backs. In a way it's true - they concentrate on their balance more and it certainly cuts back on focuser grabbing!

[LonelySpoon (Neville)]

Originally Posted by glend

Big Dobs are great but once someone bumps it, there goes ten minutes trying to get it back on target. And let me tell you, no amount of telling kids " don't touch the scope" will stop them from leaning into it and pushing it off view..

It's not just kids:
Had a Rotary group come for a visit to my place. There were a few 'scopes out, but I had my 12" Dob set on Saturn.

One 92 years young gentleman leaned into the eyepiece, grabbed it, and slowly slewed the scope, and him, towards the ground...
Several quick hands rescued both.

It was the first time he'd seen Saturn, and his reaction was every bit the same as a 10 year old. One of my happy memories of outreach.

[By.Jove (Jove)]

From the nights I've done outreach...

1. Something for the little ones to stand on (in my case, the eyepiece case)

2. Something for those a bit wobbly to hang onto (not the scope) - in my case its a set of Bunnings folding steps;

3. Something for the oldies to sit on (an adjustable observing chair).

The scope doesn't much matter. What does matter is the right target matching the scope to get the WOW response.
It could be as simple as a 70 mm refractor on the moon, an 8" dob on M42, or a big scope on the planets.

[gary]

Hi Cameron,

Great to hear you are involved in outreach.

One thing that is always for sure is that the queue for the largest most impressive looking scope is always the longest by far

This is even before they have looked through them.

When we have had outreach events such as the big ones at Parramatta Park
with crowds of more than a thousand, despite being under light polluted
skies and the limitations that imposes, if there is a big Dob there like an
18" the queues for that will be many. many times longer than for say, a 14".

It's like going to an amusement park. They don't queue for the tame
looking merry-go-round but for the biggest, scariest looking monster
roller-coaster.

Now at first blush the above may not appear to help much with your
planning with respect the "wow" factor of what people see. But it
can possibly act as anecdotal advice that might guide your planning
on a given night.

What we find when we set up multiple scopes is to plan between us what
will be showing what. A smaller aperture scope that is accessible even
to young children is obviously ideal for the Moon.

We'll then typically have something larger on Saturn, or failing that
Jupiter.

A big scope will typically be on Omega Centauri or something similarly
mindblowing.

You have two potential advantages. One is that your skies are potentially
going to be much, much, much better than the types of places
used for outreach events here in Sydney and I gather your audience - a
village and the surrounding district, is possibly smaller than the largest
crowds we have helped host here.

What I find is that parents are even happy to hold a toddler up
to an eyepiece on a scope that does not require a ladder.

Children, when they look through the eyepiece, tend to "get it"
even quicker than some of their parents. You know if the object has
drifted out of the FOV if you don't hear a "wow!"

Parents with children tend to knock off early. You need to set up before
sunset. Some of them are off to bed by 7:30pm or 8pm.

The really, really keen people ask a lot of questions and stick around.
If you suggest to them if they would like to stick around longer, you can
show them deep sky objects such as galaxies.

This later demographic often includes more people in their mid to late
twenties. But don't be surprised if a couple in their seventies hover
around in awe until late as well.

Good luck!

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080