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Old 28-12-2016, 11:27 PM
fbk (Fraser)
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What to show complete newcomers

I've got my family interested in coming with me one night in the next week or so to look through my telescopes (5", 12") from a fairly dark site, they include elderly parents and a young child. As a novice myself I don't even pretend to have seen a fraction of what's out there, but many of you do outreach sessions and have many more years at the eyepiece than I do.

I only recently got the 12" dob and the very first thing I looked at with it was 47 Tuc.. it blew me away even though I'd seen it before, or maybe because I already knew what it looked like. It still does and I stare at it in awe every time.

I still remember the first time I ever got to look through a telescope even though it was 30+ years ago, Saturn and Jupiter were stunning at the time as was M42, Pleiades, Jewel Box... and for me it planted the seed for an ongoing interest.

Those planets aren't around currently (well Jupiter is but not at a reasonable hour) and this will probably be a sunset to mid evening thing. There will be a young crescent moon right near Venus to look at early on while I set things up... but I'm curious as to what is on your "must see" lists right now for a group who mostly have never looked through a telescope before and whose attention span is probably an hour or two tops given the drive home and all.

What would your list include? What do you find people are most impressed by? They know not to expect full colour Hubble images :p
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Old 29-12-2016, 05:56 AM
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Hi Fraser,
As you said, the crescent moon should be an awesome sight.
Some other easy objects you may try for (not sure when/if these are all up at the moment - research for you)
47tuc (as you mentioned)
the jewel box (as you mentioned) and ask how many different coloured stars they can see, and explain that the different colours indicate how "hot" those stars are (Red-hot, white-hot, blue-hot).

also near the southern cross
Eta Carinae nebula and homunculus
Omega Centaurie
Centaurus A galaxy (hamburger)
Tarantula Nebula (make sure to mention the two Magellenic clouds are the closest galaxies to earth, being outside of Milky Way Galaxy)

Orion Nebula

Swan Nebula


I think there is a comet around at the moment, but they can be tricky to locate.
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Old 29-12-2016, 11:39 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Hi Fraser,

Allan has some great suggestions.

For this time of the year, The Hamburger is difficult. I would consider NGC 1365, a spectacular face on spiral in Fornax whose arms can be seen in a 12" scope. You may like to have your friends look at the Fornax Cluster, a mass of "tiny" galaxies that litter that area of the sky.

Try to explain in lay-man's terms what they are looking at, not just rattle off the name and object type. For instance M42 is a nebula, but it glows from the power of the Trapezium, a brand new cluster of stars that were formed from that very material. The power of those massive stars is blowing away the very material they were created from. And if you look carefully, you'll see a "finger like" structure pointing at the Trapezium - it is a dark pillar, a hotbed of stellar formation. The pillar is resisting the erosive power of the Trapezium - there must be something massive hiding within this pillar whose gravity is strong enough to hold this pillar of material all together without being blown away - protostars! Stars that are in the process of forming and haven't kicked of their nuclear fires! The diameter of this dark pillar is larger than the diameter of our solar system!

All of a sudden they can make sense of what they are seeing, and not just a glowing patch. The Trapezium can take significant magnification, so you may like to ramp it up to examine it a little closer.

You could try for M1, the Crab Nebula. Rather underwhelming, yes, and a test of one's eyes. But it's worth really comes from explaining it is the glowing material of a star that exploded hundreds of years ago, and is still expanding. The LMC has several Super Nova remnants in it too, some brighter than M1.

The Pleiades, another young cluster of stars, all related to each other having formed from the same gas and dust cloud. Very little of this gas and dust remains, and keen eyes using low magnification may see some of this stuff glowing as it reflects the star light. These stars will eventually drift away from each other as there is not enough mass to keep them together, unlike globular clusters. Our own Sun has similar "brothers and sisters" formed at the same time but now long drifted apart. It has been possible to identify many of them with spectroscopic techniques. When you look at the Pleiades, you are looking back at the time when Columbus discovered the Americas! 500 years ago. That's how long the light from those stars has taken to reach us.

But before you go scoping, point out what can be seen naked eye first! There really is so much to talk about. Like every individual star that we can see is wholly within our own Milky Way galaxy. Yes we can see the Magellanic clouds, but these are a glow, not individual stars. The Tarantula Nebula can be seen naked eye too, as a little blob at one end of the bar of the main structure. The LMC is considered a dwarf barred spiral by some, and not an irregular galaxy like the SMC.

Point out the Milky Way, and how we see through one of its arms, looking away from the core into intergalactic space looking at Orion. You may see some dark nebulae creating a mottled nature to the Milky Way, interstellar molecular dust and gas that actually forms the bulk of ALL galaxies. Stars actually form a small percentage of the mass of a galaxy! But because it's what we can see, we think galaxies are only made of stars.

Before it sets, there's Venus and it's crescent shape. There's plenty of stuff there to explain why we are now seeing it as a crescent!

I hope this helps.

Alex.

PS, other things to point out naked eye:

* Sirius and Canopus, brightest and second brightest stars. Have a fang at spotting the Sirius Pup, the much smaller companion of the Big Kahoona. Sirius is 9.3 light years from us. Canopus 301 light years. Canopus is one blooming big star to be so much further away yet nearly as bright. Canopus is used by the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft as their navigation marker as its parallax error is so much smaller than Sirius. Then you can rattle on about the Gold Plaque on these space craft and how the decay of pulsar period can be used to work out how long ago the craft were launched, using hydrogen as the Universal standard, and the position of these pulsars relative to the angles etched into the plaque can be used to work out the position of our Sun - all this from just a "simple" diagram!

* The red star Betelgeuse - a star in its death throes. Blooming big star that's twice as far as Canopus. It's red colour being the giveaway that it's exhausted its hydrogen fuel, and there is now and gravity/energy production imbalance. It's size, between 10 and 20 times that of our Sun, means it most likely will go Supernova. It's exact size though will determine the type of explosion it undergoes. On the upper limit of its estimated mass, such an explosion could rival the overall brilliance of the Milky Way. But this won't happen for a very, very long time yet. It's exact mass is still unknown.

* For interest's sake, ask your friends if they have any gold on them - first thing they'll think is you're gonna pinch it from them - happens to me all the time I say this... . All of that gold, and all of it on planet Earth, was all created as a result of a supernova explosion billions of years ago, billions of years before the formation of the Sun! Elements heavier than iron are only created in Supernova explosions. We really are made of star dust.

Last point. Back to the Pleiades. There is a ruby red star in this group. But it has nothing to do with the Pleiades, rather it is a background star. But its colour makes for a fine contrast to the brilliant white of the Pleiades.

Enjoy your friends!

Alex.

Last edited by mental4astro; 29-12-2016 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 29-12-2016, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post
Try to explain in lay-man's terms what they are looking at, not just rattle off the name and object type.
I totally agree with Alex. It's the explanation of what is really going on with the object that is the interesting bit. If you read the Wiki page for the Crab Nebula, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_Nebulayou'll find out about the central torus of Helium along with polarised synchrotron radiation from electrons paths being curved in a strong magnetic field. And it's quite recent - we only saw it go supernova in 1054. It was recorded in documents a the time, though the actual star blew up somewhere around 7500BC - it just took 6500 years for the light to reach us.

It was also the first detection of a pulsar which for a while were called 'LGM's, short for 'little green men' because initially, people thought the signals were eerily short lived and precise, possibly indicative of ET intelligence. Its is a strong emitter of Xrays and Radio, but is one of the brightest objects in the sky in Gamma. It pulses every 33 milliseconds. That's how fast the central neutron star is spinning.

So, although, yes it is a bit visually underwhelming, once you know a bit about it, it becomes fascinating and you start to look to see if you can spot those details - the Torus bulge, the filaments, and you think to yourself 'so that's what a star looks like 1000 years after it has gone supernova'.

Unfortunately a lot of catalogs are just datasheets that concentrate on tech specs and forget to inform the reader of what's actually *interesting about the object in question.

Markus
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Old 29-12-2016, 03:07 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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YES! LGM's! How could I forget about these little suckers!!! Thanks Markus!

AND we are coming up to the 50th anniversary of the discovery of pulsars - by a sheila too! Go girl power!
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Old 29-12-2016, 03:20 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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Hands down, 47 Tuc, Jewel box, Omega, Saturns rings, LMC stuff.
I've used these targets as standards for years and they are guaranteed to pop eyeballs especially the DSO's under dark skies and wide-ish FOV...
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Old 29-12-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post

AND we are coming up to the 50th anniversary of the discovery of pulsars - by a sheila too! Go girl power!
To quote a certain Vulcan persona... "Referencing the gender of an individual who has made a discovery is not logical..." (and can be construed as mildly insulting for its implications both ways...)
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Old 29-12-2016, 03:44 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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I would have to agree with Mr Spock and your intentions Rom . But we are neither Vulcan, and we need to encourage science as being for both genders. Look at how many of the male gender have astro as a hobby. How many women folk actively participate here in IIS - fewer and fewer, and there were not many to begin with. I find it encumbered upon myself to encourage science to both, and I do so by bringing up females in science more than fellows every now and then. How many female astronomers, or discoveries made by women can we recall? Not many,

I brought up sewing in conversation with a group of women because I am interested as a practical thing, the precision and creativity required to solve some problems. My mother in law of all people thought it ridiculous that I as a man should take interest in matters of women folk... go figure...

But let's not get distracted from the OP's question...

Alex.
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Old 29-12-2016, 04:04 PM
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AG Hybrid (Adrian)
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Well all the previous posts have been quite... illuminating. Get it

Have you considered just showing the new comers the Moon? Between its 25% waxing to 25% waning gibbon? I have never failed to blow the mind of anyone who has never looked through a telescope or a newbie with simply the moon. With the resolving power of my 12" and potential magnification the moon is full of rich detail to get them going.

There response is something along the lines of "wait... I can buy a machine that allows me to look at the moon at such detail? I can own such a thing? Isn't this something owned and built by NASA?"
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Old 29-12-2016, 06:10 PM
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Hi Fraser

Own any deck chairs?

These are great for people that need to sit down for a bit and for people to sit back and just take it all in. Spot satellites, shooting stars etc. Talk about other things.

Having a laser pointer is an awesome tool to show people where your looking at. Its a fancy bit of bling and takes a lot of the guesswork and confusion away especially for people not familiar at all to astronomy.
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Old 29-12-2016, 07:51 PM
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Hi Fraser,

Sunset to mid-evening ...
Venus, Mars, 47 Tuc and NGC 362, the Tarantula in the LMC, Pleiades, Orion Nebula and Trapezium, Rigel and companion (nice magnitude contrast), sigma Orionis as a multiple star (4 stars visible), Tau CMa cluster (NGC 2362) with higher mag, galaxy NGC 253 in Sculptor (some star-hopping needed here).

Regards, Rob
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Old 30-12-2016, 01:22 PM
fbk (Fraser)
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Wow, thanks everyone for the great advice and also some knowledge of things I wouldn't have known without looking them up myself! I'll definitely be bookmarking this link to refer to.

I can easily find a lot of the main suspects mentioned here and have seen some of them, not all... I've never really showed anything off to others before though so appreciate all the tips from those who have!

Shame Saturn isn't visible at the moment, as it's always the first thing I point to anytime I get my scope out. And a thin crescent moon with some very defined craters at the terminator will no doubt impress. I'm sure I'll get asked if we can see American flags and lunar rovers!

Cheers again and all the best for the new year.
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Old 30-12-2016, 02:41 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Oh, I nearly forgot!

There's a ding-dong battle happening right over our heads every night during our summer, and it's been happening for several hundred years!!



Every night when you look up during summer, Orion the Hunter is doing battle with Taurus the Bull. The mighty Orion is holding his lion skin shield up to Taurus, with his trusty club cocked at the ready in his other hand. Canis Major and Canis Minor, the Hunter's dogs, rally around their master, keeping watch over Columba, the dove, and Lepus, the hare - the Hunter's quarry.

The lion skin shield and club can be traced coming off Orion's shoulders. Taurus' horns are formed by the "V" shape of the cluster The Hyades. The brilliant red star, Aldebaran, the location of one of its bloodshot eyes, has nothing to do with the large cluster. It is a foreground star between us and the cluster. The sheath holding Orion's sword is marked by the asterism of stars around M42, which hangs off the trio of stars forming the Hunter's belt.

And you thought that the Heavens were a quiet place!

Below is an image showing what the celestial battle taking place looks like. You'll have to flip it upside down for it to resemble the way we see things here in Oz.
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Old 31-12-2016, 12:32 AM
fbk (Fraser)
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Ah and I always thought it was the Scorpion that Orion chased around the sky.. being one myself. Love those red giants Antares, Betelgeuse, Aldebaran... I also like to point out what a show we'd be in for if Betelgeuse decides to go supernova, which could happen any tick of the clock... astronomically speaking

Thanks Alex and everyone else for sharing your extensive knowledge and enthusiasm
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Old 31-12-2016, 06:56 AM
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Fraser, you are right about the connection between Orion and Scorpius. A scorpion stung Orion and blinded him. He now walks towards the East in an attempt to have the rays of the rising Sun restore his sight - part of the reason Orion is a constellation of hope whose first sightings heralds the coming of spring for the North. Begs the question, if he is blind, how can he be fighting a Bull...

You can bring this up, for sure. Up to you how much you want to give
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:24 PM
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How about checking http://cometchasing.skyhound.com/ ahead of time to see if there are any comets to check out. They are always in the sky and a 12" dob should be able to show several. While there may not be any with tails at the time they do tend to be beautiful jewels with a ball of gas around them. Often green when photographed so i think it may be a methane gas ball that starts to unfreeze early on its trip around the solar system before the tail starts to form as it nears the sun.

Something else that may be of interest is the main stars of the southern cross that most people are very familiar with. Show them how most are actually double stars not just one big bright star.

The magellanic clouds are a good target. If you brush up on your greek mythology the entire sky is full of constellations with stories to tell. Make sure to have a green laser pointer to help point out these things as you go.

Of course check on ISS flyovers too.

When you have an audience to keep from boredom the scope tends to not be the main point of interest. A friend of mine helped me get to a dark site where i could photograph andromeda. he started telling me about the story of andromeda in greek mythology and when I looked on the constellation chart I could immediately show him the same named relations in his story as they appear in the sky in relation to andromeda. blew him away , unravelled a sky chart is a huge tapestry of interacting characters. so while he couldn't appreciate the sky the way i did, he did connect with it in a way i couldn't.
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Old 07-01-2017, 03:19 PM
AEAJR (Ed)
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbk View Post
I've got my family interested in coming with me one night in the next week or so to look through my telescopes (5", 12") from a fairly dark site, they include elderly parents and a young child. As a novice myself I don't even pretend to have seen a fraction of what's out there, but many of you do outreach sessions and have many more years at the eyepiece than I do.

I only recently got the 12" dob and the very first thing I looked at with it was 47 Tuc.. it blew me away even though I'd seen it before, or maybe because I already knew what it looked like. It still does and I stare at it in awe every time.

I still remember the first time I ever got to look through a telescope even though it was 30+ years ago, Saturn and Jupiter were stunning at the time as was M42, Pleiades, Jewel Box... and for me it planted the seed for an ongoing interest.

Those planets aren't around currently (well Jupiter is but not at a reasonable hour) and this will probably be a sunset to mid evening thing. There will be a young crescent moon right near Venus to look at early on while I set things up... but I'm curious as to what is on your "must see" lists right now for a group who mostly have never looked through a telescope before and whose attention span is probably an hour or two tops given the drive home and all.

What would your list include? What do you find people are most impressed by? They know not to expect full colour Hubble images :p
Did you have your little private star party? Tell how it went.

If you have not had the session yet let me add some ideas. I am in the USA so I can't recommend targets other than to say that you should focus on things that can be see naked eye.

Seeing the moon and then seeing it in the telescope is great. Do the same with other naked eye targets. If you come up with 5-6 that will probably be enough for the session.


Looking forward to your report.
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Old 07-01-2017, 03:39 PM
fbk (Fraser)
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Thanks for ALL the replies everyone. Sorry if I don't address every suggestion but they are all appreciated.

I did have my own little private star party, well party of four as it turned out. Ages 7 - 73 and somewhere in between. Can I just say that I have a new appreciation for anyone who does this regularly, especially with kids! Tired, cranky kids who don't like being out where it's dark and every noise is a monster coming to get you especially . Oh and adults of vastly different heights and abilities who can't necessarily reach the eyepiece without standing on something.. or insist on turning on torches before they take a step in case they trip over.

All that said (these were all my immediate family by the way) it was a very enjoyable, warm, cloudless evening and perfect end to the 1st day of the year. Just being able to see the Milky Way, point out constellations, spot meteors and satellites, plus a few easy targets like the Moon, M42, 47Tuc etc, made it enjoyable all round. I don't think it would have mattered if there was a telescope there or not! As I suspected, the attention spans were very short compared to mine, plus the prospect of an hour+ drive home, meant that I got to hang around by myself for a while after.

But I'm sure it'll happen again

Oh and I did find comet 45P just after sunset.. no tail, just a faint fuzzy ball. But noone else had arrived then to see it!
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Old 08-01-2017, 02:25 AM
AEAJR (Ed)
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You can see the Milky Way? Wow! I have heard that that is impressive. I hope to see it some day in person.
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:59 AM
fbk (Fraser)
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Technically we only get to look out towards the edge currently... as opposed to looking towards the galactic centre which is much richer and which we have to wait a few months for. But it's still impressive under dark skies.
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