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Old 14-11-2016, 02:26 PM
Kunama
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Two TOAs Go Toe to Toe for 10 hours ......

An evening with Takahashi's finest....

So very, very briefly (and unscientifically) :

With the forecast of perfectly clear skies for the evening ahead, couple of days ago Phil and I decided to leave the big scopes at home and go 'TOA to TOA' at his dark sky site....

We set up around 1830hrs, Phil'S TAK TOA150 on the T-Rex sitting atop the Avalon T-Pod130 and along side it my TOA130NFB on the AZ-EQ6GT.

The TOA150 was fitted with the Takahashi 2" mirror diagonal, the TOA130 had the Baader BBHS 2" ClickLock diagonal.

The scopes were only given minimal time to acclimatise before being turned toward the Vallis Schröteri, Aristachus, Väisälä and Herodotus.

We then spent hours comparing the views using a variety of Takahashi and Televue eyepieces..... including:
Nagler 31mm T5,
Nagler 22mm T4,
Nagler 17mm T4, Delos 14mm, 10mm, 8mm, 6mm, & 4.5mm.
Delite 7mm
Panoptic 24mm pair in Televue Binovues
and
Takahashi eyepieces:
LE50mm, 30mm, 24mm, 18mm

Without going into too much detail, the TOA150 as expected, does show finer details but not by as much as I expected. Everything that we saw in the bigger one was also seen in the smaller but at times with a bit more effort.

The views were some of the finest lunar views I have had in years, with excellent detail in the areas around V. Schröteri and many very small craters sighted (my atlas doesn't have names for them.... too small I guess)

Given the near full moon was washing out most DSOs, we later spent a couple of hours comparing filters trying to eek out the best detail in M42, NGC2070 & NGC3372. To do this the scopes were used with Lumicon UHC, Astronomik OIII and DGM NPB on various eyepieces. The filters all performed well, giving a marked improvement over the unfiltered view ( almost **** ). The Astronomik OIII outperformed the Lumicon on Eta Carina. The DGM NPB gave an excellent result on the nebulae but turns bright stars red (which doesn't bother me)

**** but the surprise was that all of these filters were outdone by the unfiltered Televue Panoptics when they were used in the Binovue binoviewers attached to the Baader Zeiss T2 Prism diagonal.... this combination was excellent especially on M42, showing great detail and contrast.

Another little comparison was done with Phil's TOA:
we compared the Takahashi 2" Mirror diagonal to the Baader 2" BBHS Silver and found that there was very little difference (each of us actually slightly preferred the view in our own diagonal ). The target was NGC4755 and in particular a very dim and close optical double.

The end of the evening's entertainment was heralded by the appearance of Jupiter in the eastern sky followed soon after by the brilliant Sun.

Bleary-eyed, I arrived back at home in Canberra at 0700hrs and took a nap till 1000hrs.....

Consumables used for the comparison:
Coffee (several cups)
Henschke Shiraz (1 bottle)
Sandwiches (1 large boxful)

End result is that while there is a visible difference given the larger aperture of the TOA150, I will be happily keeping my 130NFB but am prepared admit that the TOA150 is the finest refractor I have ever looked through...

EDIT: We also established that the standard tripod on an EQ6 mount is hideously bad when carrying AZ-EQ6, 10Kg counterweight and a TOA130NFB, extending the legs even halfway turns this rather flimsy tripod to jelly...
I will have to look for an alternative and soon....

Last edited by Kunama; 14-11-2016 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 14-11-2016, 06:29 PM
SkyWatch (Dean)
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I can't find a decent emoji for "jealous"!

Sounds like a great night: next step would be to see how the humble 4" refractor (like my TSA102) compares to these monsters...
Interesting comment about getting better detail and contrast with a binoviewer than with a filter. Our brains really love adding the view from two eyes!

Thanks for the report- and any time you want to give away your TOA130 or any of those eyepieces...

- Dean

(PS: I am not sure how the bottle of shiraz would have actually helped the viewing, but I guess it would make it more fun! )
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Old 14-11-2016, 07:02 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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I'll put the DL up against the TOA150
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Old 14-11-2016, 07:48 PM
Kunama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatch View Post
I can't find a decent emoji for "jealous"!

Sounds like a great night: next step would be to see how the humble 4" refractor (like my TSA102) compares to these monsters...
Interesting comment about getting better detail and contrast with a binoviewer than with a filter. Our brains really love adding the view from two eyes!

Thanks for the report- and any time you want to give away your TOA130 or any of those eyepieces...

- Dean

(PS: I am not sure how the bottle of shiraz would have actually helped the viewing, but I guess it would make it more fun! )
The wine relaxes the eyeball to allow the pupils to dilate more..... that is my excuse and I am sticking with it. We had the TOA150 up against the TSA120 and TSA102s recently. The TSAs performed admirably!!!

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I'll put the DL up against the TOA150
February 24/25th is your chance Colin!! You know where we will be...
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Old 14-11-2016, 08:18 PM
SkyWatch (Dean)
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[QUOTE=Kunama;1280957]The wine relaxes the eyeball to allow the pupils to dilate more..... that is my excuse and I am sticking with it. We had the TOA150 up against the TSA120 and TSA102s recently. The TSAs performed admirably!!! ]

That is an interesting interpretation of the effects of wine: is that why there are red eyes and sore heads in the morning: due to the pupils dilating too far?
(It sounds about as scientific as me telling school kids that the Vallis Marineris was made when someone sat on Mars and broke it - and they don't believe that either!)

Good to hear that the TSA's performed well: sadly I can't see mine being up-sized in the foreseeable future, so I will have to simply put up with the 4"...

Last edited by SkyWatch; 14-11-2016 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 15-11-2016, 12:29 PM
issdaol (Phil)
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Great write up of the night Matt :-)

Not much to add there apart from using the Lumicon ND25 on the moon was very good for the larger targets but did tend to make a lot of the smaller craters and features less discernible.

Also the AZEQ6 was significantly quieter and smoother than any prior of the SW EQ mounts and placed targets almost dead centre in the EP through out the night....very impressive compared to prior SW mounts

However it was let down by the tripod which made deepening during focus very frustrating........on a good tripod like the TPOD130 or similar (or better) this mount would be a great Alt/Az goto mount.
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Old 15-11-2016, 12:30 PM
issdaol (Phil)
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I'll put the DL up against the TOA150
He He .....Bring it On !!!
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Old 16-11-2016, 10:35 PM
sharpiel
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Not the best pic but I put my AZ-EQ6 on a Meade giant field tripod via a homemade extension and added a dampening/tensioning chain between adaptor and the spreader. MuCh more stable than the SW original. Large castor wheels to allow eeeeeeasy moving around and screw extenders at the ends to allow levelling.

TOA130 on top.
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Old 17-11-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpiel View Post
Not the best pic but I put my AZ-EQ6 on a Meade giant field tripod via a homemade extension and added a dampening/tensioning chain between adaptor and the spreader. MuCh more stable than the SW original. Large castor wheels to allow eeeeeeasy moving around and screw extenders at the ends to allow levelling.

TOA130 on top.
nice set up

did you consider a solid rod rather than a chain for a damperning/tensioning system?
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Old 18-11-2016, 09:07 AM
Kunama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpiel View Post
Not the best pic but I put my AZ-EQ6 on a Meade giant field tripod via a homemade extension and added a dampening/tensioning chain between adaptor and the spreader. MuCh more stable than the SW original. Large castor wheels to allow eeeeeeasy moving around and screw extenders at the ends to allow levelling.

TOA130 on top.
Thanks Les, that looks much more stable. I am going to make a spreader from 16mm square aluminium bar and also reinforce the lower tube sections first. I also have a spare Berlebach Planet adapter minus the legs so a set of Tas Oak legs might be in order.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:27 AM
sharpiel
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Originally Posted by Eratosthenes View Post
nice set up

did you consider a solid rod rather than a chain for a damperning/tensioning system?
Actually I did. However I think the flexibility of the chain helps with respect to dampening. Solid rods tend to resonate longer whereas chains dissipate some of this energy between the links. The opposite of conservation of energy if you like.

Many people hang chain freely off their OTAs and mounts for this reason.
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Old 18-11-2016, 11:20 AM
sharpiel
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Originally Posted by Kunama View Post
Thanks Les, that looks much more stable. I am going to make a spreader from 16mm square aluminium bar and also reinforce the lower tube sections first. I also have a spare Berlebach Planet adapter minus the legs so a set of Tas Oak legs might be in order.
I love building as you do. I suspect tho the mechanical advantage of making your own will be far outweighed by the cost compared to a second hand Meade GFT which people sell online for almost nothing. For refractors they're brilliant...the degree of leg extension gives incredible height and convenience for zenithal viewing.

The chain is stainless steel and obtainable cheaply locally as are the attachments. I welded an eye bolt to the spreader handle of the GFT and a SS eyebolt is bolted through the central hole of the spreader centre disc. Couldn't have cost me more than $30??

Of course if other intangibles such as builders satisfaction (with which your are rich) are at play you may prefer your own idea.

Castor wheels optional...

I also modified the SW tripod. Give me a few minutes and I'll post pics of mods...
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Old 18-11-2016, 11:32 AM
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Here's the SW mods. The clamps around the leg bottoms are muffler clamps. Brass hinges connect riveted aluminium rigid legs to hinges to the aluminium spreader triangle. Stainless steel chain dampener/tensioner again.

Sorry about the crudity of the build. I was unemployed at the time and had to use scraps left over from previous projects.
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Old 18-11-2016, 11:33 AM
sharpiel
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Sorry about orientation of pics...

These mods dramatically improve the standard SW set up. Even at full extension. Wood will dampen resonance even more than my aluminium construction but will be more difficult to apply tension to. So there will always be compromises.
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Old 20-11-2016, 10:09 PM
Kunama
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Sorry about orientation of pics...

These mods dramatically improve the standard SW set up. Even at full extension. Wood will dampen resonance even more than my aluminium construction but will be more difficult to apply tension to. So there will always be compromises.
Hello Les, I made my brace today and will also be doing something about the flexible 1.5" leg tube... I am going to turn some Tas Oak down to just a 'smidgin' bigger than the inner diameter of the lower leg section and then use a hydraulic press to push the timber inside the tubes...... a 20T press should make light of the job....
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Old 21-11-2016, 09:15 PM
sharpiel
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Hello Les, I made my brace today and will also be doing something about the flexible 1.5" leg tube... I am going to turn some Tas Oak down to just a 'smidgin' bigger than the inner diameter of the lower leg section and then use a hydraulic press to push the timber inside the tubes...... a 20T press should make light of the job....
How'd it go? It never hapened if you can't post pics 👍
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Old 22-11-2016, 10:39 AM
Kunama
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How'd it go? It never hapened if you can't post pics 👍

Lookie here:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=150680

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