Qld Astro Gathering

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Given that everyone who does know anything about the Qld Astrofest is choosing to remain tight-lipped and not tell people what is going on, we may need to consider our options if we want a star party this year. It is after all supposedly just 10 weeks out.

If the official Duckadang booking for 3rd -13th June is cancelled, (and Duckadang haven’t been told anymore than us, the Astro public), I suppose one option is to still go there in a slightly less official capacity. I think I’ll find out details/cost etc.

Failing that does anyone know of a spot we can all go -possibly with better (less foggy) skies within say a three hour journey from Brisbane?

Stretching it a little I know the area around Ballandean is as dark as can be. Anyone know any potential sites there? I have one place in mind but not sure of the cost yet.

Out of interest how much appetite is there out there for a gathering?

[gaseous (Patrick)]

I'm keen Chris. Not sure about a whole week (it'll depend on amenities), but several days at least.

[dunc66]

I would like to go to my first one.

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Originally Posted by glend

Keep in mind that touting an alternative to Astrofest, may bring expectations concerning facilities etc from the usual attendees. It is a big event to organise, especially if you are taking some responsibility.
If your just suggesting a dark site camping weekend, with everyone responsible for themselves, then that is very different, to catering, bunk house, showers, toilets, type accommodation.
As someone who has attended many informal camping dark site trips, with little in the way of facilities (other than a drop toilet), self sufficiency is pretty important.
You may run into problems using the Astrofest name as well, as the organising committee likely would take a dim view of your ' alternative. I suggest you try to establish communication first. The Astrofest people have a bit of history of saying nothing until they are ready to tell people.
This year is a very different environment than past Astrofest events, and if they have the site booked, that says something about contingency plans.

Yeah I completely concur with everything you said and if an announcement is made that bookings are about to commence, that’s great, although in normal years booking opens 3 months in advance and we are already inside that time frame.

I have tried contacting ‘Astrofest’ many times and this post must surely have been seen by some on the committee by now? Notwithstanding that it hasn’t elicited any kind of response. I did finally speak to one of the organisers who explained there may still be restrictions on numbers and logistics may preclude it happening again. That’s fine and I suggested providing an official update on the Astrofest web site or even on IIS. Everyone would understand and just make other plans. June isn’t far away now and it isn’t that easy for me to be away from work for long periods and, the shorter the notice the more difficult it will become.

My post therefore was more about saying whilst I understand organising this event is a massive undertaking, treating the people going with indifference and just assuming they can organise their own schedule at the drop of a hat isn’t entirely fair.

Duckadang is by far the easiest option. If The committee deem that it isn’t practical for it to go ahead I’m just suggesting that the week will become available in Duckadang’s calendar and a group of us can just ask if we can go and pay as normal customers. We wouldn’t have all the benefits of AF like the fridge hire and blacked out windows etc but it may still be ok. I actually did go to Astrofest last year fir one night at least and had the entire camp to myself 🤣

I agree a different venue would probably be way too much to organise and fail to meet expectations as an organised event so it would be more a case of just a few people agreeing to make their booking and provisions for an Astro trip to a common site.

Hopefully someone will update the AF website soon to say yes or no and if yes, with a list for of caveats and conditions.

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

I have modified the name of this post to avoid conflict confusion.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Chris, I am lost for the name but there was an astro camp at an environmental school several years ago. It was in the area north and east of Jimna. The name will come to me in the middle of the night. It was quite good I thought. was it Barambah?

while not diminishing the good works and good intentions of those folk who labour mightily to get Astrofest up and running, I would welcome a chance to get into some dark skies not necessarily as an alternate to Astrofest but perhaps as a primer.

Peter

[peter_4059 (Peter)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

Chris, I am lost for the name but there was an astro camp at an environmental school several years ago. It was in the area north and east of Jimna. The name will come to me in the middle of the night. It was quite good I thought. was it Barambah?

while not diminishing the good works and good intentions of those folk who labour mightily to get Astrofest up and running, I would welcome a chance to get into some dark skies not necessarily as an alternate to Astrofest but perhaps as a primer.

Peter

Stanley River Environmental Education Centre?

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

To start, I speak as a committee member of a registered astro club, as a health professional and an astro devotee. What is being discussed here is something that all astro clubs/societies are grappling with, and it is hurting every one of them.

One needs to see things in terms of these events being a business. You must. These events are expensive to conduct - insurance, safety measures (traffic and pedestrian flows, fire and other emergencies & evacuations), cleaning, council fees (if needed), food & rubbish, toilets, preparation of property (mowing, brush clearing, repairs, etc). All of this needs to be addressed and paid for. Then there is the revenue that must be calculated to cover these expenses and leave some money in the coffee tin at the end (not as profit but as cashflow for the club). There is a huge amount of man hours needed to organise such events, the man hours to conduct them and wind up.

And now we have the added complication of a pandemic that has thrown up a huge risk factor and the complications of managing crowds - THIS is the biggest single issue here, the risk that an outbreak can bring, the additional costs of health and safety, the much reduced revenue from fewer people being able to attend. AND, if the whole blooming thing has be be cancelled with days warning or mid-event. EVERYONE will be screaming for their money to be refunded and the club/society is exposed to a financial catastrophe.

You must also consider that the majority of people who attend these astro events are older people. This factor alone raises the level of risk to totally new levels.

We cannot be selfish right now. I LOVE doing outreach and also do (did) sidewalk astronomy to get an outreach fix. But we have had to stop it all. Namely because there is no way of appropriately disinfecting our equipment between each and every person who looks through our scopes. An alcohol wipe lazily smeared over an eyepiece is NOT enough, and people touch a lot more than just the eyepiece. Don't be fooled to think that an alcohol wipe is any form of effective infection control measure with our telescopes.

With my own Club we have been discussing where to from now. The consensus being we just cannot open up to how we had things pre-Covid until enough of the population has been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. This is not a cockamamy kneejerk decision, but one reached by members who are doctors, health technicians, engineers, and (lord help us) lawyers.

Start doing astro events prematurely and without thinking things through also runs the risk of stuffing things up for everyone in astro if the crap hits the fan with insurance!!!

Conducting outreach and open night events for just about all astro clubs and societies is their main source of income apart from membership subscriptions. Every club and society has taken a major hit. We are talking to each other as well, and sharing our pain. This whole pandemic thing really sucks, and we must be patient.

Please think very carefully about what you want to do. The issues at play are far more complex and the consequences more far reaching than you may think. Sorry to say, but you must think about astro events like you are running a nursing home to put it bluntly. That is the level of risk you must be thinking about.

Alex.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by peter_4059

Stanley River Environmental Education Centre?

I don’t think so. That one is on the western shore of Somerset Dam at Hazeldean.

I’m pretty sure it’s Barambah.

[DavidTrap (David)]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

To start, I speak as a committee member of a registered astro club, as a health professional and an astro devotee. What is being discussed here is something that all astro clubs/societies are grappling with, and it is hurting every one of them.

One needs to see things in terms of these events being a business. You must. These events are expensive to conduct - insurance, safety measures (traffic and pedestrian flows, fire and other emergencies & evacuations), cleaning, council fees (if needed), food & rubbish, toilets, preparation of property (mowing, brush clearing, repairs, etc). All of this needs to be addressed and paid for. Then there is the revenue that must be calculated to cover these expenses and leave some money in the coffee tin at the end (not as profit but as cashflow for the club). There is a huge amount of man hours needed to organise such events, the man hours to conduct them and wind up.

And now we have the added complication of a pandemic that has thrown up a huge risk factor and the complications of managing crowds - THIS is the biggest single issue here, the risk that an outbreak can bring, the additional costs of health and safety, the much reduced revenue from fewer people being able to attend. AND, if the whole blooming thing has be be cancelled with days warning or mid-event. EVERYONE will be screaming for their money to be refunded and the club/society is exposed to a financial catastrophe.

You must also consider that the majority of people who attend these astro events are older people. This factor alone raises the level of risk to totally new levels.

We cannot be selfish right now. I LOVE doing outreach and also do (did) sidewalk astronomy to get an outreach fix. But we have had to stop it all. Namely because there is no way of appropriately disinfecting our equipment between each and every person who looks through our scopes. An alcohol wipe lazily smeared over an eyepiece is NOT enough, and people touch a lot more than just the eyepiece. Don't be fooled to think that an alcohol wipe is any form of effective infection control measure with our telescopes.

With my own Club we have been discussing where to from now. The consensus being we just cannot open up to how we had things pre-Covid until enough of the population has been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. This is not a cockamamy kneejerk decision, but one reached by members who are doctors, health technicians, engineers, and (lord help us) lawyers.

Start doing astro events prematurely and without thinking things through also runs the risk of stuffing things up for everyone in astro if the crap hits the fan with insurance!!!

Conducting outreach and open night events for just about all astro clubs and societies is their main source of income apart from membership subscriptions. Every club and society has taken a major hit. We are talking to each other as well, and sharing our pain. This whole pandemic thing really sucks, and we must be patient.

Please think very carefully about what you want to do. The issues at play are far more complex and the consequences more far reaching than you may think. Sorry to say, but you must think about astro events like you are running a nursing home to put it bluntly. That is the level of risk you must be thinking about.

Alex.

Sage advice Alex.

DT

[DavidTrap (David)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

I don’t think so. That one is on the western shore of Somerset Dam at Hazeldean.

I’m pretty sure it’s Barambah.

I think you’re right.

DT

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

To start, I speak as a committee member of a registered astro club, as a health professional and an astro devotee. What is being discussed here is something that all astro clubs/societies are grappling with, and it is hurting every one of them.

One needs to see things in terms of these events being a business. You must. These events are expensive to conduct - insurance, safety measures (traffic and pedestrian flows, fire and other emergencies & evacuations), cleaning, council fees (if needed), food & rubbish, toilets, preparation of property (mowing, brush clearing, repairs, etc). All of this needs to be addressed and paid for. Then there is the revenue that must be calculated to cover these expenses and leave some money in the coffee tin at the end (not as profit but as cashflow for the club). There is a huge amount of man hours needed to organise such events, the man hours to conduct them and wind up.

And now we have the added complication of a pandemic that has thrown up a huge risk factor and the complications of managing crowds - THIS is the biggest single issue here, the risk that an outbreak can bring, the additional costs of health and safety, the much reduced revenue from fewer people being able to attend. AND, if the whole blooming thing has be be cancelled with days warning or mid-event. EVERYONE will be screaming for their money to be refunded and the club/society is exposed to a financial catastrophe.

You must also consider that the majority of people who attend these astro events are older people. This factor alone raises the level of risk to totally new levels.

We cannot be selfish right now. I LOVE doing outreach and also do (did) sidewalk astronomy to get an outreach fix. But we have had to stop it all. Namely because there is no way of appropriately disinfecting our equipment between each and every person who looks through our scopes. An alcohol wipe lazily smeared over an eyepiece is NOT enough, and people touch a lot more than just the eyepiece. Don't be fooled to think that an alcohol wipe is any form of effective infection control measure with our telescopes.

With my own Club we have been discussing where to from now. The consensus being we just cannot open up to how we had things pre-Covid until enough of the population has been vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. This is not a cockamamy kneejerk decision, but one reached by members who are doctors, health technicians, engineers, and (lord help us) lawyers.

Start doing astro events prematurely and without thinking things through also runs the risk of stuffing things up for everyone in astro if the crap hits the fan with insurance!!!

Conducting outreach and open night events for just about all astro clubs and societies is their main source of income apart from membership subscriptions. Every club and society has taken a major hit. We are talking to each other as well, and sharing our pain. This whole pandemic thing really sucks, and we must be patient.

Please think very carefully about what you want to do. The issues at play are far more complex and the consequences more far reaching than you may think. Sorry to say, but you must think about astro events like you are running a nursing home to put it bluntly. That is the level of risk you must be thinking about.

Alex.

I don’t disagree with anything you said Alex. I am very happy to think of if as a business but running a business like this with a total failure to communicate anything at all to your customers would go bankrupt.

I’m not asking for Astrofest to go ahead regardless of the risks, I’m asking for the common courtesy of just telling people what the hell is going on. If it isn’t happening, that’s fine; just inform people. What we have had is total silence. The committee members I have spoken to have simply complained that none of their attempts to bring the committee together to even discuss it have elicited any kind of response at all.

[peter_4059 (Peter)]

Originally Posted by OneCosmos

I don’t disagree with anything you said Alex. I am very happy to think of if as a business but running a business like this with a total failure to communicate anything at all to your customers would go bankrupt.

I’m not asking for Astrofest to go ahead regardless of the risks, I’m asking for the common courtesy of just telling people what the hell is going on. If it isn’t happening, that’s fine; just inform people. What we have had is total silence. The committee members I have spoken to have simply complained that none of their attempts to bring the committee together to even discuss it have elicited any kind of response at all.

I thought this was a thread about you arranging a star party but alas it is just more whinging about Astrofest...wtf?

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Originally Posted by peter_4059

I thought this was a thread about you arranging a star party but alas it is just more whinging about Astrofest...wtf?

Fair point Peter -bit of both but I was side tracked answering Alex’s points.

@pmrid if it was Barambah that certainly looks to be a very dark spot. Do you know if was a specific camp or was it private land?

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by OneCosmos

Fair point Peter -bit of both but I was side tracked answering Alex’s points.

@pmrid if it was Barambah that certainly looks to be a very dark spot. Do you know if was a specific camp or was it private land?

I believe it is an environmental school run by Qld Education. It has bunkroom accommodation, mess hall, refrigeration etc. Next to it is a large open flat area for visual obs but from memory, the imaging area is a bit hemmed in. I think there’s a web page with images.

[Tandum (Robin)]

Hey Pete, I went to couple of those. I thought it was a Lions Club venue but no it's edu. https://barambaheec.eq.edu.au/

Stars cast a shadow there, never seen anything like it. Look at galaxies through a finder scope.

People with keen eyesight can see Andromeda unadded.

As pete said, Limited power/area for AstoPics. Big Paddock for visual. Super dark site.

160k north of brisbane, turn left at Gympie, go 100k west turn left around Goomeri, go south.

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Tandum

Hey Pete, I went to couple of those. I thought it was a Lions Club venue but no it's edu. https://barambaheec.eq.edu.au/

Stars cast a shadow there, never seen anything like it. Look at galaxies through a finder scope.

People with keen eyesight can see Andromeda unadded.

As pete said, Limited power/area for AstoPics. Big Paddock for visual. Super dark site.

160k north of brisbane, turn left at Gympie, go 100k west turn left around Goomeri, go south.

Excellent, thanks. I’ll contact them and see what is possible. I’m cognisant of all points raised in this thread about risks and expectations and work more along the lines of individuals making their own booking. What I will do though is find out what the facilities are like, accommodation types available, cost and minimum numbers to book. Also I f course availability for over the July or August New Moon.

Chris

[pmrid (Peter)]

The web site indicates that they are tied into the Qld Edu cycle of terms and holidays. I suppose availability might depend on that. I think the next mid-term is 25th June to 12 July. The moon would be in the last week towards New at 10th July.

I wonder how they are using the place now, in view of covid etc. My guess is that it’s in mothballs for the duration.


Peter

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

The web site indicates that they are tied into the Qld Edu cycle of terms and holidays. I suppose availability might depend on that. I think the next mid-term is 25th June to 12 July. The moon would be in the last week towards New at 10th July.

I wonder how they are using the place now, in view of covid etc. My guess is that it’s in mothballs for the duration.


Peter

Irrespective of whether anything is possible until everyone is vaccinated or not I'm keen to find out about the place because it would be fantastic to find another dark site in Queensland that also has facilities at a reasonable cost. There are plenty of options if you want to pay $120+ for a hotel room but that makes for a very expensive week of astronomy.


The Warrumbungle Mountain Motel in NSW is a fantastic place to go but I'm sure there are great places far closer and in QLD.


I'm keen to take the new SDM 28" out for a drive and will find somewhere this winter for me at least. Whether or not it is practical for a group of people I can't say and it may be too difficult.


Chris

[OneCosmos (Chris)]

Plans are falling into place for me. I am delighted to say that Matt, who purchased my beautiful APM 152 mm f/7.9 LZOZ APO refractor has agreed to allow me to re-acquire it. I missed it terribly.

Matt and I will therefore use the August New Moon (falls on the 8th) to meet at in or rather near Coonabarabran for our own mini Astrofest, viewing through both Nocturne and the APM 152mm. That will effectively replace Astrofest for me this year. If the Qld Astrofest does happen in June, I’ll go for the weekends only. The main event will be one more within my control.

Chris