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Poll: Which telescope/seller?
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  #1  
Old 15-02-2016, 09:00 PM
Dirty_Explorer (Josh)
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Smile First Time Telescope

Hi Everyone,

I'm a first timer, literally never looked in a telescope in my life, but I've read a lot on astronomy, love watching for falling stars and satellites when I'm out bush and would love to have a better look into the heavens. I really enjoy camping too so I thought the two hobbies might fit together neatly.

I've done a lot of reading online and I believe I'd like to go with an 8" F/6 Dobsonian as a first telescope. Price range can be up to about $600 (can push just over but really only just). From my readings I believe this should give me plenty to enjoy up close, a decent view of some of the planets and a good hint at more when it comes to distant nebula.

I have narrowed it down to the following but I've gotten to the point where I'm a little stuck differentiating on much else than price. Would really appreciate your thoughts and/or opinions on the following:

1. Saxon 8" Full Tube: $495 http://www.astropetes.com.au/telescopes.html
Benefit with this seller being that I live in Brisbane so any problems I can take back to store; appears to include some eyepieces (presumably a 10mm and 25mm but not sure).

2. GSO 8" Full Tube: $599 http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co...-guansheng.htm
Just over a $100 more and a different brand but benefit being that it comes with an extra SC30 2" eyepiece, 15mm eyepiece and moon or neutral filter.

3. Saxon 8" Full Tube (DOB 8): $460 http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com....icroscopes.htm
Benefit being it's the cheapest 8" Dobsonian I could find online; website doesn't instill a lot of faith though (looks a little basic).

OR a collapsible one...

4. Saxon 8" Collapsible: $575 http://www.astropetes.com.au/telescopes.html
Benefit with this seller again being that I live in Brisbane so any problems I can take back to store (again presumably includes 10mm and 25mm eyepieces).

5. SkyWatcher Black Diamond 8" Collapsible: $624 http://www.ozscopes.com.au/dobsonian...le-8-inch.html
Benefit being it looks cooler with the black paint and ... not sure what else; presumably more as it was priced around $1,000 initially?

The only attractiveness to the collapsible one is it looks like it would retract into a much smaller size for transporting (not that it's an issue really - I have a ute) but on longer trips when space is more scarce perhaps. It also does look a little cooler.

Really, really, really appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Thanks,
Josh
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  #2  
Old 15-02-2016, 09:47 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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I would say #1, Saxon is more or less owned by Sky Watcher which is a very reputable brand. It is cheaper than the GSO, you can pick it up (you would still have to pay delivery for the DSO) PLUS with the money left over you'll be able to put a couple of half decent eye piece. The ones that come with telescopes are typically not good for anything other than book stops haha

I would suggest a Full Tube over a collapsable for two reasons.
1) A full tube will hold collimation where as a collapsable doesn't. Collimation is having the primary (big mirror) and secondary (little mirror) correctly aligned with one another.
2) My understanding is that a lot of collapsable dobs have more issues with tube currents which wash away fine details (important when looking at either the moon or planets).
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  #3  
Old 15-02-2016, 09:48 PM
BeanerSA (Paul)
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These are all 8" scopes. Just pick the one you can buy locally (if you are happy with the price) and just get on with it!
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  #4  
Old 15-02-2016, 10:17 PM
raymo
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It isn't quite that simple Paul. Most Newts do not have enough back focus
to allow attaching a camera for prime focus photography. As far as I am aware, At least some GSO Newts fall into this category, whereas all
Skywatcher/ Saxon Newts have sufficient back focus. If Josh decides he
would like to take some pics, this would be a vital point.
Sorry Colin, it's just not true that collapsible dobs don't hold collimation. Truss dobs usually need tweaking after assembly, but the massive
system that Synta use on their Skywatcher/ Saxon collapsibles ensure
that they hold collimation very well indeed. My 8" solid tube newt
sitting on my HEQ5 mount needs collimating FAR more frequently than my 10" collapsible dob does.
A friend of mine has a 10" Lightbridge, and he and I have not encountered tube current problems with our Dobs.
raymo
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  #5  
Old 15-02-2016, 10:21 PM
SkyWatch (Dean)
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The Saxon scopes have identical specs, and their eyepieces will be fine for your initial use. They will give identical performance once they have achieved ambient temperature.
When I used a collapsible scope like the Saxon it held collimation well, so I don't think that is an issue. Tube currents are usually more of a problem in solid tube scopes, so I am not sure why Atmos indicates the reverse. However, when the scope settles to the ambient temperature there shouldn't be an issue with tube currents anyway.
I agree that you should go locally; it will be a lot easier to get support from the dealer if needed- and I think you will find that shipping costs from Telescopes and Astronomy would be higher than the difference in prices anyway.
So, if you aren't fussed about the size of the scope, why not get the solid tube Saxon from your local dealer, and use the saving over the collapsible scope to buy another eyepiece when you want, or, even better, put it towards an adjustable observing chair! It is so much easier to look at stuff with a scope this size if you are sitting down! (I notice AstroPete has one for $129. Why not ask him if he will do you a deal!)
All the best,
Dean
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  #6  
Old 16-02-2016, 06:37 AM
Dirty_Explorer (Josh)
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Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I'm leaning towards the collapsible purely for space saving especially when on the road. Glad to hear that they don't have any issues that the full tubes don't too (and that they might hold colmination better even).

If i went with a collapsible is it a worthwhile endeavor to get a shield for it? I've seen them for around $39. And would a laser colminator be a worthwhile investment straight up (about $75) or would that be better spent getting say a 6mm and 15mm eyepiece?

Thanks again!
Josh
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  #7  
Old 16-02-2016, 11:04 AM
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BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty_Explorer View Post
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I'm leaning towards the collapsible purely for space saving especially when on the road. Glad to hear that they don't have any issues that the full tubes don't too (and that they might hold colmination better even).

If i went with a collapsible is it a worthwhile endeavor to get a shield for it? I've seen them for around $39. And would a laser colminator be a worthwhile investment straight up (about $75) or would that be better spent getting say a 6mm and 15mm eyepiece?

Thanks again!
Josh
I will admit right now that I know pretty much nothing about telescopes and rely on other people's opinion, but I think you're better saving the $75 for a good eyepiece. I found a tutorial on the internet of how to collimate your telescope with just a piece of card. It worked for me and I haven't had any issues since.
I have a collapsible dob (130mm) and I love it. They're definitely great for portability.
That's about all the help I can give. If you'd like, I can hunt down the link to the tutorial?
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  #8  
Old 16-02-2016, 11:22 AM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Since it looks like you're in Brisbane, take a trip down to Astro Pete's (at Mt Gravatt), and Sirius Optics (at Underwood). They will both have a few in stock, so you can get an idea of how big they are, how easy to handle etc - and you can talk to an expert about the various pros and cons.
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  #9  
Old 16-02-2016, 12:15 PM
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Allan_L (Allan)
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Welcome Josh
It is good to see someone who has done the research.
Your choices are all good alternatives.

Raymo is spot on.
Saxon and Skywatcher are very similar, the skywatcher is (IMHO) a slightly better build quality.

If size is not an issue, get the full tube, but remember, size can be an issue for transportation, as well as storage. I have my 12" collapsible stored in a cupboard that a full tube would not fit into. Most people don't want them stuck in the middle of their lounge rooms.

Collapsible (as apposed to struts) hold their collimation extremely well, even over very rough roads out to our dark sky site.

Collapsible cools down quicker than solid tube. Tube currents are generally not an issue with any open scope, even less with collapsible.

Solid tube don't require a shroud. That will save money. But I often use my collapsible without the shroud anyway, if there is no stray light, and no DEW about.

I would lean towards the one where the seller is close to you, for advice, and those regular optional extras and accessories.

Finally, I disagree that the eyepieces that come with these scopes are poor quality. Generally they are very good quality Plossl eyepieces and they compare favourably to much more expensive ones.

Happy Viewing!
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  #10  
Old 17-02-2016, 09:52 PM
glanto
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Hi there, I'm also after a first scope and have been looking at a SkyWatcher 8" Dobsonian Telescope $600ish or a SkyWatcher 102/1300 EQ2 Maksutov Cassegrain Telescope at $500ish (when on sale).

I'd like to check out the planets and see what ever I can in space.
Obviously I would like the best scope within my budget. Does either of these scopes have a distinct advantage over the other - sky wise? Or is there something even better out there that fits my budget?

thanks in advance,
glanto .....already lost not yet in space
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  #11  
Old 17-02-2016, 11:32 PM
raymo
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The 8" dob has become arguably the most popular first purchase in recent years; simple to set up and use, and easy to sell when/if the time comes to upgrade. For visual work, equatorially mounted scopes
like your other choice, are a pain in the rear end for many newbies,
especially if the newbie in question has limited affinity with things mechanical. 127mm Maksutovs are great for lunar and planetary work, but lose out hugely to the 8" dob as far as light grasp and
resolution are concerned.
The 8" is definitely the way to go, or even a used 10." Take note of my previous post if you think that you might want to take some pics.
raymo
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  #12  
Old 18-02-2016, 07:35 AM
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janoskiss (Steve H)
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Comes down to small differences. I had a GSO 8" and the mirror was excellent. That scope was bought 10 years ago though. I'd assume by now both GSO and Synta have perfected mass production of 8" mirrors, so you've got to look at what else you get in the package.

AFAIK GSOs come with a better Crayford focusser that has a 10:1 fine focus control, while the SWs only have a basic 1x Crayford. That's a significant plus at higher than 200x powers. Different sellers include different accessories. Bintel have a right-angle (RA) finder with their Bintel branded GSO, but I think Andrews have a straight-through finder. RA finder is much nicer once you get used to it (less neck strain). If you combine it with a red-dot style finder (Rigel quickfinder or Telrad are the best), it's bliss.

But don't get analysis paralysis: any of those scopes would serve you well. You can always accessorise them later to your liking.

You will also need a collimating tool. Don't get a laser collimator for your first basic collimation tool. They easily get knocked out of alignment and are unforgiving if the laser is not precisely aligned within its housing. Get a long Cheshire style collimating tool and learn how to use it. Much more reliable and lasts for a lifetime. Cheapest I've seen around recently is the Skywatcher branded one from Andrews for $49.

As far as the scopes holding collimation, both brands do very well, if you do it right and secure the locking bolts properly (you need to keep checking collimation as you tighten them).

GSOs tend to come with better eyepieces - still budget EPs but are fully multicoated, while the SWs are coated/partially-multicoated. In practical terms that means better contrast. AFAIK. Do your own research to be sure.

All I've said applies to the 8" models only. For your first scope I strongly recommend 8" and no bigger. I've had 8", 10" & 12" Dobs, and also used 6". The 8" f/6 Dob is really a sweet spot, best overall fr ease of use, portability and plenty aperture. Solid tube is fine and fits in a car, unless you must have it all in the boot of a sedan. Solid tube will also be more durable and keep your mirror better protected, especially if you use your scope around other people.

PS. Don't get a black tube model. Gets very hot in the daytime if you happen to leave it outside (or put it outside early to try and get it to cool down before sunset) and is less visible at night. White on the outside and matte black the inside is what you want.

Last edited by janoskiss; 18-02-2016 at 07:56 AM.
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  #13  
Old 23-02-2016, 05:22 AM
glanto
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raymo, thanks.
Sorry for my tardy reply - wanted to do a little research before I posted again.

It seems the dobsonian 8 is the best way to go and I feel very comfortable about purchasing one now.For me it’s a lot of money so I appreciate and value your feedback! Thank you.

I’ve read about the need to have a Light Pollution Filter rather than a Moon Filter, a Barlow 2x lens and then the eye pieces. I’m guessing the telescope comes with 2 eye pieces.
On the eye pieces I found this comment on a particular astronomy blog “One caveat about Barlows: if you plan to buy one, choose your eyepiece focal lengths wisely. If you buy a 2x multiplying Barlow (the usual value), there’s no point in having a 25mm, a 12mm, and a 6mm eyepiece. With the Barlow the 25mm comes close to 12mm and the 12mm becomes a 6mm. A 25mm, a 16mm, and a 6mm would be a better lineup.’’ Do you guys agree with this comment and its recommendation?

Would the Dobsonian 8, a Barlow 2x, an LPF and the 3 eye pieces recommended above be the perfect starter's kit?
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  #14  
Old 23-02-2016, 05:20 PM
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doppler (Rick)
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I'd skip the barlow, the beauty of the newt is its simplicity the only glass you look through is the eyepiece. On my 8" (f6) newt I use the 25mm and 12.5mm the most, the 6mm on exceptional nights and I would add a 32mm (or even 40mm) for wide field views. As for the LPF I have one but have never really found it that usefull.
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Old 24-02-2016, 05:48 PM
glanto
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Originally Posted by doppler View Post
I'd skip the barlow, the beauty of the newt is its simplicity the only glass you look through is the eyepiece. On my 8" (f6) newt I use the 25mm and 12.5mm the most, the 6mm on exceptional nights and I would add a 32mm (or even 40mm) for wide field views. As for the LPF I have one but have never really found it that usefull.
Great. Thanks doppler. That’s a really interesting comment because there seems to be so many people on youtube or in blogs recommending the use of filters. Are there any times when you feel filters are beneficial excluding those specifically designed for viewing the sun?

And can anyone recommend a good tool for collimating a Dobson 8? Budget under $100 preferable.
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Old 24-02-2016, 06:13 PM
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astroron (Ron)
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Originally Posted by Dirty_Explorer View Post
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I'm leaning towards the collapsible purely for space saving especially when on the road. Glad to hear that they don't have any issues that the full tubes don't too (and that they might hold colmination better even).

If i went with a collapsible is it a worthwhile endeavor to get a shield for it? I've seen them for around $39. And would a laser colminator be a worthwhile investment straight up (about $75) or would that be better spent getting say a 6mm and 15mm eyepiece?

Thanks again!
Josh
I would take note of this post in #8
Since it looks like you're in Brisbane, take a trip down to Astro Pete's (at Mt Gravatt), and Sirius Optics (at Underwood). They will both have a few in stock, so you can get an idea of how big they are, how easy to handle etc - and you can talk to an expert about the various pros and cons.
These people are Amateur Astronomers and will give you good advice and you can handle the merchandise, AstroPete will even take you out to a star night and let you see for your self.
Everything you want to know will be explained to you,yes even filters and collemation.
I hope you get what you want, but a lot also depends on the Dollars in your piggy bank.
Cheers
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  #17  
Old 24-02-2016, 08:12 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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I would suggest getting a moon filter if nothing else. A moon filter will help increase the contrast on the moon but most importantly, it stops your eyes from aching from looking at it with an 8" dob Plus, they can be really cheap.
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  #18  
Old 26-02-2016, 06:52 PM
glanto
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Originally Posted by Atmos View Post
I would suggest getting a moon filter if nothing else. A moon filter will help increase the contrast on the moon but most importantly, it stops your eyes from aching from looking at it with an 8" dob Plus, they can be really cheap.
Thanks Atmos, I'll take your advice.
And what about a collimating tool? Any preferences?
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Old 27-02-2016, 03:21 AM
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"Moon" filter can mean several things. The ones that come included with cheap scopes are a dark green filter. You get a visually not all that satisfying very green Moon to look at.

A better one to use is a so called "neutral density" or ND filter, which just cuts down on the amount of light evenly across all colours. ND filters have a rating which specifies by how much they reduce brightness (see wikiped page).

A better option still to use crossed polarisers (they are sold as a single filter, not expensive) where you can adjust how bright or dim an image you want.

But IMHO the best option is to use no filter at all and view the Moon in its first or last quarter if you want to see maximum detail. (For showing others the more-than-half-full Moon an ND-filter can be useful though.)
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  #20  
Old 28-02-2016, 08:25 AM
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Howard (Howard)
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Josh .... every Friday night Astropetes has viewing nights ... go down there (its local to you anyway!) and look through a variety of scopes. There's also viewing nights up at Mt Cootha once a month - see the BAS website for when they are on. You'll get a MUCH better impression of how big/transportable they are seeing them in the flesh, and what you can actually see through them. Peter & the other astronomers there, or those up at Mt Cootha, will also have filters on hand to actually show you what they do. And Barlow (magnifying lens) too.
Secondly, you will need a smartphone/iPad star gazers/stellarium app. Search in IceInSpace for them as everyone will have some advice re which is better But seriously, all you really need as a newbie is .... anyone of them. You just need it to point you in the right direction towards whatever object you are hankering to view, so you can push your scope and see through the finder to fine tune - star hop - your way to the object.

Get to a viewing night! See stuff - both the equipment and the views through them - before you make a purchase.

cheers
Howie
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