Is it time to give it all up?

rocco57au (Rocky) · #1 26-05-2020, 05:56 PM

That is the question that ponders my mind

The sky was perfect last night so I braved the cold to set up my gear and take some images... haven't done it for some time now for health reasons.
All set up I had heater strap on front glass of imaging scope, set the focus with the bahtinov mask and was ready to go.
After setting polar alignment, probably not perfect but good enough for tracking I began to take a series of images. Not happy with the end results I further checked focus and it was ok with the exception of what appears to be the effects of dew in the images taken.
I took to a torch and looked at the front glass and it was clear with the exception of "micro dust particles" on the glass (may require proper cleaning) and further inspection down the tube seemed ok. I am puzzled as to what could be causing the images not to be clear... had no issues in the past.

My set up is as follows:
Orion ET80CF
Filter Wheel
TeleVue reducer
Motorized focuser

The first attachment of NGC 6188 is 1 x 300" Ha with no processing and the second is a stack of 6 x 300". The third image is same stack of 6 that has only been stretched.
Any thoughts

Rocky.

pfitzgerald (Paul) · #2 26-05-2020, 06:03 PM

Hi Rocky

If you were in Melbourne last night there was some thin high level cloud that came in (around 9ish) that would have marred your prospects of getting good images last night - I know that it did for a friend of mine.

Paul

Mickoid (Michael) · #3 26-05-2020, 06:12 PM

My first thought was focus issues, I know you said you used a Batinov Mask but did you lock the focus in ? It may have shifted after initial focussing. Second thought was it could be down to just terrible seeing. Were the stars twinkling abruptly? Other than that I don't really know, your tracking looks good for 5 min subs. Maybe high cloud not discernible to the naked eye or upper level fog. Hope someone else can give you some answers, Rocky.

Despite your issues, the data looks good enough to produce a pleasing result.

glend (Glen) · #4 26-05-2020, 06:31 PM

Your target is rich in Ha, and it shows up in your result, are you just interpreting the Ha signal as fogging? I believe you need alot more subs, like minimum 30, and these should be graded to eliminate any with poor signal quality. There are a number of image grading apps, Mainsequence has one that is excellent. Not every sub is going to be good, you should expect to discard some from every run. Good luck. Do some reading here, it's the download link.

https://mainsequencesoftware.com/Products/ImageGrader

RyanJones · #5 26-05-2020, 07:16 PM

Hi Rocky,

The dew was pretty full on last night. I was out testing with my C9.25 and I got 1/2hr at best. In conditions like this I’ve had issues in the past with the filter fogging up. If your filterwheel isn’t sealed it might be an option ?

Cheers

Ryan

xelasnave · #6 26-05-2020, 07:35 PM

Hi Rocky
You need to be doing it rather regular else it becomes an effort and little things go wrong or you forget something. Your images seem ok you just need more of them and committed processing. Try two hours HA and you may be very impressed with your result..don't let health issues hold you back..just moved slower, rest whatever and just be patient..I have self talk to help ..like if there is cloud I say fantastic I can get som sleep..keep positive and just keep gathering data..I have now spent 15 hours on NGC 6188 and culled my data to twelve hours which is reasonable...good luck...never give up...rest and attack again.
Alex

Anth10 (Anthony M) · #7 26-05-2020, 08:03 PM

Rock,
I saw CFN forecast that evening- seeing was a drabby 6/10 and jet stream not favourable.If the fog this morning is anything to go by then the air must have been building with moisture during the night- try again with all the guides given in these replies-

And never throw in the towel- You will soon get back on track soon enough.
It’s a testing hobby for sure.

Regards,
Anth

Nikolas (Nik) · #8 26-05-2020, 10:07 PM

There was a fog coming down last night in Melbourne so there was not the clarity of other nights, some suburbs were hit harder than others. I packed up about midnight last night as the dew was very heavy. Still got the chicken though so not a total loss.

JA · #9 26-05-2020, 10:11 PM

As a few here have already suggested the seeing could have been a factor. I too can definetly confirm that. If you were in Melbourne last night, the Stars were twinkling like crazy to the naked eye are very obviously on the camera LCD screen under even moderate magnification.

Best
JA

jamespierce (James) · #10 27-05-2020, 10:27 AM

The conditions on Monday night were the worst I've seen for a 'clear night' in a long time ... the FWHM for my images was ~6+ with scatty guiding all the way until I gave up. I think there was very thin high cloud and moisture coming through all night.

rocco57au (Rocky) · #11 27-05-2020, 01:43 PM

Thanks to everyone for your encouraging words

I feel the need to go back to basics and relearn some of the procedures I was using in the past that produced, what I thought, reasonable results.

+1 to all replies regarding the atmospheric conditions. The night may have been worse than similar conditions I have imaged in the past only I could not see it... my eyes aren't as good as they used to be (comes with age unfortunately, I am told

).

Michael: "I know you said you used a Batinov Mask but did you lock the focus in?"

Yes, focus definitely double checked and securely locked.

Glen: are you just interpreting the Ha signal as fogging? I believe you need a lot more subs

A lot of my subs are in Ha and I've taken many in the past with no more than 5 x 30" to get good results. On close examination you can see what appears to be the "dew" effect on a lot of the fainter stars.

Ryan: If your filterwheel isn’t sealed it might be an option?

I actually considered whether or not the filters fogging up could be the issue reason being that I grabbed my binoculars for a look into the sky only to see the eyepieces fog up on me. Will need to look at filter wheel and hopefully seal it up properly if that is the issue?

Alex: Thank you for your encouraging words... amazing.

Anth: I saw CFN forecast that evening- seeing was a drabby 6/10 and jet stream not favourable.
And never throw in the towel- You will soon get back on track soon enough.
It’s a testing hobby for sure.

I may need to refer to their website if I continue to come across similar problems in future. It may help with elimination of possible issues.
I don't normally throw in the towel all that easily unless I've exhausted all possibilities and still no improvement. There's a wealth of possibilities mentioned in this post that need further investigation

Cheers
Rocky

ChrisV (Chris) · #12 28-05-2020, 09:24 AM

First- well done.

I agree with others about seeing. Keep banging away at it for a few nights, it gets easier. And you'll start to see differences in seeing over the nights, and start rejecting subs affected by it

Keep on truckin Rocky!

cometcatcher (Kevin) · #13 28-05-2020, 11:45 PM

To me, the images look out of focus. If you have a large temp difference during the session, you may have to refocus several times.

rocco57au (Rocky) · #14 01-06-2020, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

First- well done.

I agree with others about seeing. Keep banging away at it for a few nights, it gets easier. And you'll start to see differences in seeing over the nights, and start rejecting subs affected by it

Keep on truckin Rocky!

Thanks Chris... I'm not quite ready to give up that easily... will continue to push forward until I'm ready to drop

Quote:

Originally Posted by cometcatcher

To me, the images look out of focus. If you have a large temp difference during the session, you may have to refocus several times.

I did recheck the focus when I saw the initial results and using bahtinov mask camera was still in focus before adjustment had to be made later inthe night... further investigation later did however show a lot of foreign matter on the scope glass (see attachment)

I know that pointing a torch on the glass makes things look a lot worse than what they really are, but I think that this is a good starting point especially after having seen what I found... Next step is cleaning the front glass...

Rocky

LostInSp_ce · #15 05-06-2020, 02:12 AM

No need to give it up. Like everyone else has mentioned it looks like the weather was against you. As for cleaning that looks normal to me unless you're advertising it for sale. You can if you want to but personally I wouldn't bother about cleaning that until you get a few more specks. Now if it were the camera sensor then that's a different story.

alan meehan (Alan) · #16 05-06-2020, 09:53 PM

Rocky the shots are better than my shots I have had in HA but for sure I would clean the front lens clear lens makes for better viewing
ALAN

rocco57au (Rocky) · #17 10-06-2020, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostInSp_ce

No need to give it up. Like everyone else has mentioned it looks like the weather was against you. As for cleaning that looks normal to me unless you're advertising it for sale. You can if you want to but personally I wouldn't bother about cleaning that until you get a few more specks. Now if it were the camera sensor then that's a different story.

I get paranoid for just having a few dust particles on my glasses so cleaning was only a matter of timing... comes from having an epiretinal membrane that is enough on its own to impact my vision

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan meehan

Rocky the shots are better than my shots I have had in HA but for sure I would clean the front lens clear lens makes for better viewing
ALAN

I've achieved far clearer and crisper images in months gone by and it seemed that no matter what I tried was going to improve results on that night... but moving on...

I went out to telescope retail outlet in Mitcham (not sure if I can name them) and I had them clean the glass for me while I waited. They did a wonderful job and it only set me back $20.00. I was surprised at what they charged as I was prepared to pay way more just for the peace of mind (my paranoia of dust on glasses...lol).

Now I've got to wait for weather conditions to improve (and my health as well) to go out and give it another go so I sincerely apologize in advance for the extended crap weather conditions we're going to experience as a result

Rocky.

LostInSp_ce · #18 13-06-2020, 02:57 PM

Looks the goods.

Your lens now is now ready for sale. Just kidding.

Don't stress too much if you get a couple specs on it when you take it out next time. It's all part of the fun. I think some people obsess a little too much about having a perfectly spotless lens. I'd worry more about fingerprints scratches, mold or cheeky spiders. You don't ever want those on your glass. To put things in perspective I usually only have to clean mine at least once or twice a year. I must admit however that when I do do it, I have a very strict process that I always adhere to. Happy imaging!

rocco57au (Rocky) · #19 14-06-2020, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostInSp_ce

To put things in perspective I usually only have to clean mine at least once or twice a year. I must admit however that when I do do it, I have a very strict process that I always adhere to. Happy imaging!

Yes, it has made a huge difference and this is the first clean in the number of years that I've owned it so possibly its first clean ever...lol. Now need to wait for ideal conditions to test it out.

Quote:

I must admit however that when I do do it, I have a very strict process that I always adhere to. Happy imaging!

What process do you use? Would like to give my tracking scope a shot at cleaning it myself. It too has never been cleaned since I first purchased it 5-6 years ago and it looks just as bad as my imaging scope did before cleaning

Rocky