That Electricity rip-off again

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Exfso

Holy cow Barry 21c/kwh, how come you get it that cheap, we are in the Mid 30's now and still climbing. Shows the disparity between the states I quess. I am lucky I have solar panels, but I paid top dollar for them, (they are now half the price). I am very much aware of cutting on power as a matter of fact prior to having them installed, my daily consumption was around 20kw, now in summer it is as low as 6kw and during winter averaging 12kw. One thing is for sure, I am not using power like a drunken sailor now that I have solar, I believe if anything it has made me more aware of cutting back on useage to maximise the benefits of the panels. But the benefits are being eroded by the outlandish price hikes in power, which appear to have been much higher in SA than the eastern states, going by the kwh rates I have seen for the easterners.

The single all day rate is around 21c. That's what I get. As long as I stay under 1750kWh then it jumps to 24c. I have 4 people in the house and I work from home. My last bill (Electricity only) came down to $335.00 for 90 days. We did 13kHw average opposed to 21kWh last bill and 18kWh last year same period. I haven't got solar panels yet but seriously considering it to offset my day consumption as I work from home 7:00am to 6:00pm so not interested in buy back rates.

What made a difference for me:

1_ change all lighting to LED. That suprisingly made a big difference. The biggest I think.

2_ Changed my 16yr old Fridge to a new one.

3_ change the way I do things around. (i.e use the electric oven less, don't leave PC unattended on, etc...)

If you average 7kWh per day your quarterly bill will increase by $150.00 roughly with the new tax being implemented and probably to 60% of what you're paying now within 2 years.

PS: I also talked to my supplier and they now give me 8% off my gas bill and 12% off my electricity bill if I signed for 2yrs with them which I didn't mind as I've been with them for over 17yrs now.

[Exfso (Peter)]

Marc that says it all really, you pay 21c/kwh we pay 34c/kwh, that is a huge difference. And yes I have done all the things you suggest to cut back and more. Our summer rate is over 40c/kwh How the hell can there be such a huge difference between the states????

[Larryp (Laurie)]

I have my electricity and gas with the one supplier. Peak charge between 2.00pm and 8.00pm was$0.406/Kwh, shoulder charge $0.1640/Kwh and off-peak $0.0960/Kwh, although these costs have gone up since 1/7/12
Certainly makes you think about when you use power!

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Exfso

Marc that says it all really, you pay 21c/kwh we pay 34c/kwh, that is a huge difference. And yes I have done all the things you suggest to cut back and more. Our summer rate is over 40c/kwh How the hell can there be such a huge difference between the states????

That's the thing Peter, I have a flat rate. If you have off peak and shoulder rates you'll pay way more than I do during the day (40c) but less at night (10-16c). This is part of your billing. Ring your supplier and see if you can change your rates. Maybe you can't because you might be using electric hot water and that would kill you on a single rate as well. I'm lucky I run Gas. Still cheap now but I won't hold my breath. These will change as well.

Your best bet is to insulate your house as best as you can and cut your consumption. It's not going to get any better but try to shop around.

Originally Posted by Larryp

I have my electricity and gas with the one supplier. Peak charge between 2.00pm and 8.00pm was$0.406/Kwh, shoulder charge $0.1640/Kwh and off-peak $0.0960/Kwh, although these costs have gone up since 1/7/12
Certainly makes you think about when you use power!

Yes, if you have off peak and shoulder rates it makes sense. In my case it doesn't matter when as I use all day. Although for me it still makes sense to use gas hotwater for dish washer or washing machine during the day when it's not so cold.

[Exfso (Peter)]

Marc, I dont have off peak rates, and the house is insulated. In any case I dont use electricity for heating, I have a slow combustion wood heater.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Exfso

Marc, I dont have off peak rates, and the house is insulated. In any case I dont use electricity for heating, I have a slow combustion wood heater.

No ideas why you guys pay through the nose down there. Sucks to be in SA then. Sell and move over the border? Snake Valley

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

No ideas why you guys pay through the nose down there. Sucks to be in SA then. Sell and move over the border? Snake Valley

They have $200k more than us to pay for their power . Average house price in Syd $650k, average house price Adel $450k

[Paul Haese]

I generally reject that most people that have solar panels are more flippant with their power. Like Pete I have made modifications to our usage. Not that we were using much before we got panels. Our average bill was around $350 per quarter. We don't have lots of lights on during the night and all of them are low power units. I work from home too and have done for the last 10 years. Yet our usage was quite low.

Since putting on solar panels we are more conscious of our usage. We only have a 3kw system and that is working well for us. So far cost neutral on power bills and that is a factor worth considering. It is not only environmental but the cost of installation has to be offset by the panels themselves. When you have panels yourself you are trying to maximise the return faster so you will use less power. So to use a generalisation that most people with solar panels are just as wasteful is well not true. I know about 10 people with panels and everyone of those people are more energy conscious than people without them.

Power distribution and generation are probably most of the reason for differing prices. SA has to import a lot of power from the eastern states and also we have the largest wind farms in Australia. The cost of those things is almost prohibitive for residents here. Importing power from other providers is likely to cost more than generation ourselves and this would be a signification reason for higher prices. Knowing business this cost is off set plus a 5-10% clearance margin. Going from state owned to public is generally been considered a bad move here and I hear this from other state commentators too. There is also the cost of replacing infrastructure. ETSA utilities is being forced to upgrade 30 and 40 year old infrastructure and that has to be paid for somehow. A simple irony is that we paid for all the gear and yet are being forced to pay for its use all the time via the service charge.

Added to this is the fact that we do not have off peak except for hot water systems. We have a flat rate all year round for general power. This is because we do not generally have smart meters here. My wife's house has a smart meters as we asked for it specifically when we got panels (my house had one because it is only 6 years old). When everyone in this state has those then I am sure off peak power consumption will come into vogue.

Until then I suspect the power companies will continue to push up prices where they can.

[Larryp (Laurie)]

I agree, Paul. When I put solar panels in, I checked the meter readings weekly and kept a written record of my power generation for the first year-that gave me a good average for the amount of power my panels generated. I became very conscious of what I was consuming and what I was generating-changed all the light bulbs, tried to use power at more economic times of day etc.

[Scopie (Brad)]

Originally Posted by nightstalker

And every time the sun don't shine and it gets around 3.00 pm please tell me how the enviroment benefits from having all our coal fired power stations ramping up to to meet the grids peak demand ? and its ongoing to as we will have to build more of them as that peak demand increases.

You are exactly right with this. Panels are producing a small fraction of their rated power during what you'd normally consider peak energy consumption hours. So you still need all the power capacity you have now to meet demand. Unfortunately ramping coal stations up and down is very costly as it wears them out faster. The modern coal stations actually suffer more through this than the old clunkers that aren't combined cycle.

The funny thing about this is, less power consumed but needing the same power infractructure = higher cost per unit of electricity.

[midnight (Darrin)]

Noting the price increases, I also note that the bulk generation price in $/MWHr have not really increased at the rate of retail prices. The prices being paid to generators only a few weeks ago is still similar to those being paid to generators 5 to 10yrs ago. Obviously this market is subject to large fluctuations when a machine falls over or near a weekend where a large thermal station may be paid as low as a few $/MWhr to stay on to avoid a costly run down and run up (on diesel oil - all the coal fired stns I'v worked at start on oil and shut down on oil).

Very interesting to observe (to my perception) the increasing gap between bulk and retail prices paid/charged.

On another note, I just returned from a recent trip to Europe where we are buying a small 40MW generator for new power station up north. The guys at the factory took us to their latest machine, a single 1800MW monster. This thing is going to a new nuclear power station. It takes 4yrs to build and the size of apartment block. This is only the generator - not the turbine.

Consider a grid (eg Europe) that has generation in the 10,000s of MW and try and base load that reliably & economically with the current technological offerings for renewable energy. Wind and solar are inherently chaotic sources. They can not be reliably predicted when required for base load.

I am a strong believer in distributed solar and the concept of distributed generation but the engineering reality must also be taken into consideration.

Darrin...