10" GSO Dob is like a glorified pair of glasses

StarGuardian · #1 13-03-2009, 09:40 AM

Hi guys

Ok the title of this thread is a little exaggerated but since buying a 10" GSO ASDX (adjustable tension design) dob in November last year, I feel like it's a waste of my money. I live in a relatively dark area, you see lots of stars with the naked eye on a clear night, but when looking through the dob:

1) the patience of trying to align a star through the eye-piece, like watching mexican jumping beans!

2) nothing is really magnified? I looked at mars and venus and they were still nothing but white dots. I was hoping to see an in-your-face experience of their surfaces (lol). well i kept hearing a 10" dob was good enough to see the rings of Saturn.

3) the 6" plossls seem so useless! i see dark matter, like the stuff inside my head sometimes.

anyway i am tempted to sell it as I probably don't have the patience of a seasoned astronomer.

what do you guys think? and if anyone is willing to buy (i'm near penrith, sydney) let me know and make an offer. still brand new cos i hardly used it! it's just sitting very safely in my house, even with a shower cap to cover the bottom mirror area. they sell for $999 currently from Bintel or Andrews Comms.

my email is john.c.velasco@gmail.com

erick (Eric) · #2 13-03-2009, 09:59 AM

Sounds like you'd better sell, John. Doesn't look like you've done any research nor have any patience for this hobby.

OK, maybe give it one last chance. Point it at Saturn, then at the Jewel Box, then at the Eta Carina nebula next chance you get. Maybe do that at a star camp with folks around to give advice?

vespine · #3 13-03-2009, 11:02 AM

Yeah unfortunately I dare say it sounds like the above is right... That said, Mars is very very difficult to view through a dob, I've had a 12" dob for about 3 years and I've never managed to get a good look at it. Venus also does not have a "surface" you will see, it is perpetually covered by a dense layer of pale cloud. The interesting thing about it is you should be able to see a "phase" to venus, like the phases of the moon. Saturn and Jupiter on a good night are fantastic! But good nights aren't frequent, and yes, it does take a lot of patience and trial and error to get it for more then a few seconds in the eye piece. It does sound like maybe your bearings need a little bit of work to get smooth if you are getting a lot mexican jumping beans. This website is a decent representation of what you can actually expect to see at the eye piece. http://www.backyardvoyager.com/eyepieceviews.html
In fact, I'd actually call most of those "above average" to what I normally see, but I rarely get out to very dark skies..

If I were you I would definitely give it one more go, like the above suggests, it does get easier with experience, not harder, so if you can find Saturn and eta c or orion, hunt out 47 tuc or omega centaurus, and if you are still not impressed, pack it in. Nothing wrong with that, this hobby certainly isn't for everyone, straining to see some faint smudge with averted vision I sometimes wonder myself why I do it.

erick (Eric) · #4 13-03-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vespine

This website is a decent representation of what you can actually expect to see at the eye piece. http://www.backyardvoyager.com/eyepieceviews.html
In fact, I'd actually call most of those "above average" to what I normally see..........

Someone remind me again of why we bother to look

koputai (Jason) · #5 13-03-2009, 11:49 AM

First off, DON'T use the 6mm eyepiece, it's too much magnification. More magnification means fuzzier views.
You probably received a 15mm with the scope? Use that one for general viewing, you'll get nicer views.
If you have a wider eyepiece (bigger number of mm) use that to have a look at the Orion nebula, or as Erick says, the Carina nebula.

Cheers,
Jason.

astronut (John) · #6 13-03-2009, 11:56 AM

Go out with an Astronomical Society to a dark sky site.
Take your scope with you.
Talk to the members and look through their equipment.
As Eric stated earlier, if after all this you're still disappointed, Observational Astronomy may not be for you.
I'm the president of The MacArthur Astronomical Society, based in Campbelltown, you're welcome to come out with us as my guest.
Drop me a line if you're interested.

toryglen-boy (Duncan) · #7 13-03-2009, 12:17 PM

a 10" GSO dob is an excellent instrument ... if you know what your doing with it.

I think there is a common misconception from beginners that bigger telescopes mean more magnification, where we know the reality is a good magnification for a half decent view of Saturn, Jupiter etc. can be pushed out of an instrument half the size (albeit with less resolution etc)

Its all about light John, and what you do with it, TBH most of the time i use my dob with a 40mm eyepiece, that gives a magnification of 37.5, sometimes i use a 26mm, and sometimes a 10mm (giving a mag of around x150) Dobs are by nature, light buckets, and will capture far more than you could ever see.

I think another essential ingredient for this hobby is imagination, i have shown some object to people, and they usually fall into two categories.

1. "Is that it? that little grey smudge? i thought i would look like it does in the book"

2. "Oh wow! thats amazing to think how far away this is, and what i am seeing"

No.1's have usually been sold a false promise of instant amazement, that falls short of thier dreams (as so many things in life do)

No 2's usually have the imagination not to look at what they are seeing, but to "see" it, (bear with me, this a difference) they usually dont expect to see some image taken with the Hubble ST, but something misty, and shrouded in mystery, and open to thier own interpratation. and these are usually the people who get smitten.

I showed my partner Saturn, with the rings almost edge on, through an 80mm refractor, with a power of about 90, it was a small image, although an obvious disc about the size of a matchhead, no real features where visible, the rings could just be made out, as could Titan, i wasnt expecting much, but she was gobsmacked, and her exact words where "my god, its another world, another planet, and i am seeing it, with my own eyes!" she now comes with me to any events and thoroughly enjoys herself

like i said, you have a very competent instrument in a 10" dob, but its like fishing, it takes a huge amount of patience, understanding, and basically just chilling out and going with it, seeing itself is also an art, the 10,000 time you look at the Orion Nebula, will look completely different from the first, i gaurantee it.

but i am not knocking you mate, if its not for you, then thats fair enough !

but all i would ask is, dont give up yet, to me at least astronomy answers alot of the questions that i have started asking myself, as i am just short of 40 .. i have recently had a real sense of my own mortality, but when i look at things through the eyepiece i find it has a soothing effect, along the lines of "why am i bothered? my time here is but the blink of an eye, but here is something that really is timeless" and i get a certain comfort from that, and i am sure others here do also, its part of the common thread that binds us light gatherers together.

Lowepro · #8 13-03-2009, 01:27 PM

I can see saturn's rings fairly well through my 114mm reflector, and everything looks fantastic through my 12" dob (thanks stephen). The telrad makes a huuuge difference - I point where I think something is, then look through the telrad and realise I'm off by a fair bit, adjust and happy viewing!

Lismore Bloke (Paul) · #9 19-03-2009, 05:06 PM

I agree with Torglen-boy (Duncan) and the other guys. I have a GSO 12" dob and the first thing I put on it was a Telrad red circle finder. It makes picking up bright objects, or fields to scan, much easier. As the others have also said, forget the 6-9mm eyepieces for now. I hardly use mine except on the moon and Jupiter and Saturn and then only on rare occasions when the asmosphere allows it. The most used eyepiece on mine is an old 2" 32mm Televue Wide Field and the next one is a Celestron 26mm Plossl. Nice bright wide field views. Just go out and scan around the milky way running up from the southern cross and up to Orion.

This web site has numerous posts and articles on improving dobs and the problem of sticky movement. The 10" dob is an excellent visual scope with plenty of good light grasp. It is designed to be a light bucket. High power views of planets require a long focus instrument, maksutov or refractor. Good luck, don't stress out, just enjoy scanning around and getting used to the scope. The collimation of the mirrors may be worth a look. Most of these things require adjustment out of the box, mine certainly did.

Paddy (Patrick) · #10 19-03-2009, 07:49 PM

John, I'm quite surprised that you can't see Saturn's rings through a 10" dob. This makes me wonder about the collimation of the scope. If it's not well collimated you would lose a lot of detail. How does it stack up if you do a star test (ie point it at a bright star, put it out of focus until you see some concentric rings around the star - they should be circular and not skewed to one side)? Forgive me if I'm telling something that you already know. At present Saturn's rings are edge on to us and you won't see detail, but when they are tilted, you should see at least one division. On Jupiter (later in the year), you should be able to make out cloud bands, the great red spot, moon and shadow transits.

I would also imagine that if you're near Penrith, you are not really getting dark skies. I would echo Eric's suggestion of getting to a star night at a dark sky location and seeing what is possible. It might also help to get someone to check your scope in case something is wrong.

Again forgive me if I'm telling you things that you're already aware of. You will see some colour on Jupiter and Mars, but not on deep sky objects as you will still be relying on scotopic (night) vision, which is always monochrome. But you should still get quite a bit of detail on nebulae, GCs etc. With patience and a dark sky, brighter galaxies should also show some detail. You should also get some very nice views of open clusters with a 10" dob, including some nice red stars.

I would also agree with Jason about magnification - 100-150x is a reasonable expectation for most seeing conditions. With your 6mm ep, your will usually get only a mirage unless seeing is exceptional and as you have found, a good view of floaters and blood vessels in your eye.

Then again, as has been pointed out, some people just don't get excited by what you can see through a telescope. I do hope that you can find some joy with yours.

stevoggo (Stephen) · #11 19-03-2009, 09:19 PM

Hi StarGuardian,
I only started astronomy in January with a second hand 8 inch dob. I have seen some amazing things, including side on rings of Saturn. (though Venus was a little dissapointing!)
The people involved in astronomy ..so far... have been a great help with no egos...try to get to a meet or find someone experienced to spend a little bit of time with you, it may well be worth it.
I wouldn't give it away yet as you sound like you are yet to actually experience the good part of astronomy. So far you've only had the negative parts. telescopes are bloody fiddly when they are new to you.
Outside of planets some nice star clusters, like the "jewel box" near the southern cross and Nebulas like M42 mentioned earlier (the middle star in Orions sword belt....or.....(sorry astronomer dudes...) the middle star on the handle of the frying pan (cringe its what my wife calls it) should give you a nice 'hit" again use a larger eyepiece I think I mainly use a 25mm plossel.
good luck
Steve

Jen · #12 19-03-2009, 10:51 PM

Nah its not worth a penny John its no good i think you should just give it away to some chic by the name of Jen

erick (Eric) · #13 19-03-2009, 11:39 PM

Too late guys. John put it up for sale on 14th:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=42348

Lismore Bloke (Paul) · #14 20-03-2009, 08:41 AM

Damn, all that good advice for nothing. Pity you're not closer
to Penrith Jen.

Jen · #15 20-03-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erick

Too late guys. John put it up for sale on 14th:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=42348

oh no that is so sad so we lost an atro geek this month arhhhh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lismore Bloke

Damn, all that good advice for nothing. Pity you're not closer
to Penrith Jen.

I know if i had one of those i wouldnt be selling it unless it was to go bigger

h45e (Anthony) · #16 20-03-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

I know if i had one of those i wouldnt be selling it unless it was to go bigger

I dont want to know.....

Anyhow, just got my dob last week and love looking through it. Hopefully the clouds will go away tonight at 8pm so I can look at the sky.

Jen · #17 20-03-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h45e

I dont want to know.....

Anyhow, just got my dob last week and love looking through it. Hopefully the clouds will go away tonight at 8pm so I can look at the sky.

You lucky devil well hope you have some clear skies all weekend

Spanrz (Brett) · #18 22-03-2009, 03:57 PM

All I can say is my 12" dob (Bintel/GSO) is performing past my recommendations.
Unfortunately collimation and dirt on the mirror is a part of these scopes, with moving them around alot, but it's way worth the moving.

I was going to buy a 10" dob, but said to myself, for what it's worth, I want the biggest aperture I can afford.
To see M42 is such closeness on the first night, blew my mind away.
After owning a 4 1/2" a long time ago, seeing M42 and Omega Centauri Cluster, this scope blows my mind on what you can see.
Though Saturn is a bit of a let down from my expectations, it still does not detract from it's overall performance.

I got a 10 MP camera for my birthday and all day I could think about was a pic of M42. Yeah, funny isn't it.
I wasn't after a pristine shot first up, it was very hack job just to see what the camera gave me. As my old 4MP could not even detect colours in M42, it only seen the greenish hue what our eyes seen (even at an 8 sec exposure)

So, after 1 hr of trying to get something close, vola, it worked, got a 8 sec exposure with full on red colour. Ok, so it had no drive system yet and the picture was pretty blurred, but it caught the exact expectation I was after (and some more). With the standard 26mm EP, it caught the perfect zoom/field I was after.

The problem that I was dealing with, just before I bought the 12" is the same ideal that the OP has gone through.
Buy a scope and not to live up to my expectations.
I didn't want to buy an 8" or 10" only to be let down what I wanted to see.

So my method of madness was "aperture is king" and went for the biggest scope for mobility and even if it cost me a hundred dollars more, the 12" was on.
Though the hands on approach on "guiding" the dob is all art and a challenge (you need to the challenge to find stuff)
Tracking is a project of mine, that's on the go. (only tracking, not a star finder)

So it's only what you make of it.

Perfect references : - http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=42691

AdrianF (Adrian) · #19 22-03-2009, 10:18 PM

I was blown away by the views thru my 10" GSO when I bought mine. My first serious view was Saturn and it has been indelibly etched into my memory banks. The Mexican jumping bean effect I found was when I used the 6mm EP and I got advice from this forum that I was doing it wrong and yes I did have greater expectations than reality. I expected to see exactly what I see in magazines and initially was disappointed but after advice from the collective experts on both this and another Oz forum I started to enjoy what I did see through the scope. I am real sorry that some people don't have the down to earth (no pun intended) expectations for these scopes as I really believe they are the best alround scopes around.

Adrian

Chillie (Henry) · #20 24-03-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

oh no that is so sad so we lost an atro geek this month arhhhh

Yes it is sad Jen, but after last (Monday 24 March) night's experience, you may have gained one too.

Check my thread that I'm about to write.