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Old 13-05-2019, 03:51 PM
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Somnium (Aidan)
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Starlink launch and us poor DSO iphotographers

In the next couple of days SpaceX will launch 60 satellites into a LEO to commence the starlink constellation which looks to provide high speed internet access to everyone on the globe. It is all very exciting but this is the start of a campaign that will see around 12,000 satellites launched into VLEO in the next decade.

lets put that in perspective, there are ~5000 satellites orbiting the planet right now with only ~3000 that are in LEO and impact DSO images. So you are looking at a 4x increase in satellite traffic from this constellation alone. However, they are not the only players in this game. Other perspective constellations include

Samsung 4600
telesat 117
amazon 3236
Oneweb 2522

These are all potentially coming in the next decade, so up to 22,475 additional satellites, a 750% increase in LEO traffic. The chances are that not all of these satellites will be launched and that one or 2 providers will probably come out on top but still!

needless to say, it is going to get busy up there and the chances of having a streak free sub is going to go way down. Enjoy it while you can!
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Old 13-05-2019, 04:22 PM
raymo
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All sorts of things that we[humans] won't like are going to happen on this
planet in the next few decades, and almost all of them man[and woman] made; this is just one of them. I am actually quite happy that I am too old
to see most of them happen, but am sorry for my kids and grandkids.
raymo
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Old 13-05-2019, 05:42 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Just a lot more dithering to get rid of all the crisscross.
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Old 14-05-2019, 02:06 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Just wondering - would a very low orbit satellite be visible, apart from just after sunset, and just before dawn? Surely, if it's in the Earth's shadow, it won't be visible? Maybe you might get an instantaneous occultation of a star every now and then?
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Old 27-05-2019, 09:15 PM
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Who is approving this is the question?
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Old 27-05-2019, 09:32 PM
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An opportunity for software.
I recently had so many in my captures at least thirty with more than one in some frames...so many that I thought I would leave them in and turn the number into a feature of the image ...but oddly none showed up after stacking ..maybe they were treated as noise????
It surprises me when using polemaster the number passing the pole region.

Alex
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Old 27-05-2019, 09:49 PM
Wavytone (Nick)
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Time to build an infrared or UV laser cannon and start frying the electronics in these things. It is feasible to build an IR laser capable of doing this, if you have a spare 12" dob that can be used to deliver the beam.

Those responsible will eventually give up after most of them have gone silent prematurely.
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Old 27-05-2019, 10:40 PM
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Also what is their life span.
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Old 28-05-2019, 09:47 AM
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Who needs to take longer than 60 second subs?
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Old 28-05-2019, 11:29 AM
gary
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The Starlink satellites are reported to already be intrusive for observers
at high latitudes.

Canadian friend, Alan Dyer, a highly talented and respected astrophotographer,
author and presenter, wrote today :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Dyer, Albert, Canada
Here's the SpaceX Starlink satellite train from the first group of 60 satellites launched, captured May 26/27, 2019 from home in southern Alberta as they traveled through the Big Dipper high overhead at approximately 12:55 a.m. MDT May 27, 2019.

Contrary to expectations, they are bright and visible all night at this time of year at our latitudes. Neat sight now, but imagine the sky littered with hundreds of these all the time, at any one time.

While most of the few dozen satellites were faint on this pass 4 were quite bright, and easily naked eye, and similar to the Big Dipper stars in magnitude. Polaris is at lower right at the end of the Little Dipper handle.

This is a frame grab from a 4K video at ISO 52000 with the Sony a7III and Canon 24mm lens at f/1.4. I stacked 8 frames to smooth noise but the satellites themselves are from one frame to keep them point like. Taking a longer-exposure still image at a lower ISO was not an option here as the moving satellites would have blurred into a streak looking much like any single satellite trail. So taking a video at an ultra-high ISO speed, then extracting still frames was the method of choice though it produces a noisy image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Dyer, Alberta, Canada
Here's my real-time video of two of last night's Starlink satellite train passages. These give you a good idea of what they looked like to the naked eye.

Yes, they are bright and can be seen all night, not just at dusk or dawn. Surprise SpaceX! Do your homework on lighting geometry at solstice.

They are a novelty now, but will be a desecration of the "dark sacred night" when there are thousands of these things up there. Manmade junk will outnumber the stars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Dyer, Alberta, Canada
This is a real-time video, in 4K, of the SpaceX Starlink satellite train from the first group of 60 satellites launched, and captured here on May 26/27, 2019 from home in southern Alberta.
Video here :-
https://youtu.be/tCZEBbwt8yQ

Alan Dyer's "Amazing Sky" web site :-
http://www.amazingsky.com/

Frame grab image copyright 2019 Alan Dyer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (61218892_10216408547425112_6377146958401765376_o.jpg)
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Old 28-05-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
The Starlink satellites are reported to already be intrusive for observers at high latitudes.

Video here :-
https://youtu.be/tCZEBbwt8yQ
Thanks Gary. In isolation, I can imagine that being a beautiful sight to behold - initially. Soon enough the novelty would wear off though. Perhaps my 4 yr old boy may be the last generation to witness a clean sky. Sure, we've had satellites for decades, but sightings are an exception, not a constant norm for urbanites.

These "Trains" I guess will break up, as they gradually deploy to an equidistant contellation, like GPS?

I can imagine anyone who protests these things (for whatever valid reason) will be shouted down for being "unprogressive". Who is the target audience/market for these internet services? Developing countries perhaps, "Internet for all", etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone View Post
Time to build an infrared or UV laser cannon and start frying the electronics in these things. It is feasible to build an IR laser capable of doing this, if you have a spare 12" dob that can be used to deliver the beam.

Those responsible will eventually give up after most of them have gone silent prematurely.
I like this idea. Probably more than is healthy. Perhaps one should keep such plans on the lowdown? We all know how excited people get in laser pointer threads.
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Old 28-05-2019, 01:09 PM
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This garbage will turn astronomy into being an off-earth business only.
How will anyone new to Astronomy be able to tell this junk apart from actual stars?
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Old 28-05-2019, 01:26 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
These "Trains" I guess will break up, as they gradually deploy to an equidistant contellation, like GPS?
Hi Andy,

Out to mag 6.5, there are 9,096 naked eye stars.

Currently there are approximately 1,886 artificial satellites in Earth orbit.

The Starlink plan is to put in orbit approximately 12,000 satellites.

Several other companies have discussed having similar plans.
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Old 28-05-2019, 01:28 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandum View Post
Also what is their life span.
Quoted as approx 5 years before needing to be replaced.
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Old 28-05-2019, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
Quoted as approx 5 years before needing to be replaced.

Hopefully Elon will go broke by then...
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Old 28-05-2019, 02:10 PM
Sunfish (Ray)
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Yep. Just propping up the share price. Poor use of technology.

I would have thought that in some places a little more food and water would be a higher priority. However , if you control information......

Is that not so Google.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
Hopefully Elon will go broke by then...
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Old 28-05-2019, 03:54 PM
Wavytone (Nick)
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Perhaps we should encourage the Chinese to use them for target practice.
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Old 28-05-2019, 05:08 PM
Sunfish (Ray)
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I think there will be plenty of trains of Chinese satellites up there soon enough. But perhaps they will be fuel cell powered stealth units painted mat black.

Space agencies seem to think satellites are interesting to look at rather than thinking of protocols for making them less visible.

I canít build a reflective roof , but Musk can have a billboard in space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone View Post
Perhaps we should encourage the Chinese to use them for target practice.
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Old 28-05-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaa_ian View Post
Who is approving this is the question?
https://www.engadget.com/2015/05/11/...laws-of-space/
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Old 29-05-2019, 11:12 AM
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Hi Gary, thanks heaps for all that info, that video by Alan Dyer is an amazing watch.

I'm looking forward to catching it in the next few days, Brisbane looks to get good pass on the mornings of 1st, 2nd and 3rd June, with the best being morning of 2nd.
Should be an amazing sight to see, I can't wait.

It can be tracked here for your location, pass details/times given: https://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=74...kwUk_nKqAt2C-M
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