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  #41  
Old 03-12-2007, 05:54 PM
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Hmmm.

Care to chime in here, Big D?
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  #42  
Old 03-12-2007, 05:56 PM
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Just checked. I think the only ones Dennis has taken are with the DMK. Sorry
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  #43  
Old 03-12-2007, 06:11 PM
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Calling anyone with a DBK!

What are the advantages and disadvantages on taking images of the Moon with a colour camera. (DBK)
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  #44  
Old 03-12-2007, 06:17 PM
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iceman (Mike)
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The same disadvantages as taking colour images of planets with a one-shot colour camera.
Reduced resolution.
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  #45  
Old 03-12-2007, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
The same disadvantages as taking colour images of planets with a one-shot colour camera.
Reduced resolution.
And there you have it
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  #46  
Old 03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
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Matty in reply to your question.
I think I am going to go for the mono and filter wheel.

PS
Thanks to all who posted on this thread. Your experience/knowledge in choosing a camera has helped and others with what seems to me could possibly be a mine field.

Cheers
Ian
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  #47  
Old 03-12-2007, 07:13 PM
Dennis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [1ponders] View Post
I think Dennis might have done some moonage with his DBK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt View Post
Hmmm.

Care to chime in here, Big D?
Hi Guys

Thanks for the plug! Well now, let me see, it seems quite a while since I did some of this imaging stuff. If I am going to image the moon, I will plug in the DMK. I have noticed that it produces better images than the DBK. What do I mean by better?
Well, the DMK live images look cleaner, show less noise, allow for higher frame rates and have more in reserve if I need to pump the image for faint objects, or those with a high brightness range.
I have never experimented with the DBK as a mono camera, I have always used it as a colour camera and in this mode, lunar images are dimmer and noisier at the same settings, so I have to increase the exposure time, lower the fps and pump the gain.

I use the DBK mainly on colourful multiple stars where I can pump up the Gain as we are dealing with point sources. However, if I want to split close doubles that are faint, the DMK is superior in 2 ways;
  • It goes deeper so I can image fainter doubles.
  • The dynamic range seems superior; that is, where the brightness difference of the components are large, such as mag 3 and mag 10, I can play with the settings and capture both using the DMK, whereas the DBK hits the wall at around 7 or 8 mag where noise and slow frame rates become dominant.
However, I will reiterate – I have always used the DBK in colour mode and not used it in B&W mode.

Hope that helps!

Dennis
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  #48  
Old 03-12-2007, 07:53 PM
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Hi again,

Just for the fun of it,

Can you please place your vote on which Imaging Source Camera I should get.

The DMK or the DBK? keeping in mind that I am a total beginner.

1 vote for the DBK
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  #49  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:58 PM
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Ultimately the DBK will be more "plug and play" in the short term. You can always sell it down the road...
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  #50  
Old 04-12-2007, 04:46 AM
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You don't buy a DBK just to image the Moon. You buy a DBK because:

1) You like the convenience of 1-shot colour
2) You like the time saving in capture and processing
3) You like the cheaper cost, without having to buy a filter wheel and coloured filters (expect to add at least $500 onto the price of the camera alone).

They are the ONLY reasons you buy a DBK over a DMK. It isn't a voting exercise - it's completely up to you and your budget, time and experience.

For a beginner I'd recommend the DBK. Learn the art first. With the right equipment and techniques you can get reasonable results fairly quickly, but you'll be surprised how difficult it is to master and do very well.
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  #51  
Old 04-12-2007, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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Learn the art first. With the right equipment and techniques you can get reasonable results fairly quickly, but you'll be surprised how difficult it is to master and do very well.
. . . or buy astronomy magazines and cut the pictures out

Be a whole lot easier

Start at the start with a cheap SPC900NC or 840k ProII. If you aren't happy with imaging, then you haven't spent over $150 to find out. If you do want to advance onto a better but trickier camera, the 900 or 840 will make a great guide camera.

Just don't rush in and want the best, as the more advanced cameras come with more advanced learning.
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2007, 11:27 AM
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The black and white camera is optimal for imaging the Moon and when used with filter wheels produces the highest quality planetary images, but then you have the cost and hassle of the filter wheel and more complex post-processing.

The colour camera is less suited to the Moon but on the planets gives you the convenience of one shot imaging with no filter wheel needed.

There's a lot to be said for starting off with the much cheaper SPC900NC and seeing if you enjoy webcam imaging, its got a pretty steep learning curve and you'll still be able to produce some excellent images with it.
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  #53  
Old 04-12-2007, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballaratdragons View Post
Start at the start with a cheap SPC900NC or 840k ProII. If you aren't happy with imaging, then you haven't spent over $150 to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen65 View Post
There's a lot to be said for starting off with the much cheaper SPC900NC and seeing if you enjoy webcam imaging, its got a pretty steep learning curve and you'll still be able to produce some excellent images with it.
I've already tried imaging with my digital camera in video mode shooting at 24fps. I took a couple of AVI's of Mars just from holding the camera above the EP. I read an article on how to process images and found it to be a whole heap of fun. The image was over exposed and bright but after that small experience I needed more. I could see the redish orange of Mars and a ring of blue sorounding it.

So I have had a very tiny amount of experience with a digital camera.

What I really don't want to do is buy the 900nc spend between $150 -> $200 then soon after wanting to buy the DBK costing around $350 -> $400. Don’t forget I am on a budget .

Regards
Matt
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2007, 04:24 PM
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Despite the current consensus I would recommend this strategy.

If you buy the DBK, you get one shot imaging so to speak. If you buy the DMK and no filters you can still do one shot imaging, only it is in B&W. You will have a nice starting camera. Later you can get a filter wheel and filters. The transition from single shot cams like the 900nc and the DBK is not as hard as people make out. It requires some practice and some patience; if you have them then it will be easy. You can still do nice work with a monochrome camera and learn most of the necessary skills before going to colour with filters. Doing RGB imaging is quite simple, if you just use either photoshop or astra image 2.5max. I use astra image to do my recombine. Keep things simple and with good data; you will achieve nice images.

My vote is the DMK. However, if you are concerned about learning how to do all this, then go the DBK. If you decide you don't like planetary imaging you can always sell the unit.

Choice is yours.
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  #55  
Old 04-12-2007, 05:21 PM
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I've already tried imaging with my digital camera in video mode shooting at 24fps. I took a couple of AVI's of Mars just from holding the camera above the EP.
Between your above attempt, and imaging with a Toucam, D*K, NexImage, DSI, etc, there is 'No Comparison'.
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  #56  
Old 05-12-2007, 04:51 PM
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What is the current price of the DBK 21AU04.AS? Looking around at several sties I've found them ranging between $400 to $540+

Where is the best (cheapest) place to purchase the DBK?

With the USB version of the camera is the USB cable included with the camera?

Regards
Matt
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  #57  
Old 05-12-2007, 06:24 PM
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Sounds like you've got the full range of prices already..

Yes the USB cable is included.
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  #58  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:00 PM
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Hi,

I have some quick questions....

... I've found out that the DBK outputs data in RAW format. What is RAW format? Can it still be used in Registax?

Is it the same compared to the DFK and the DMK?

Regards
Matt
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  #59  
Old 07-12-2007, 09:46 PM
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The DBK outputs in a number of formats. (BY8, Y800, UVBV)
The one to use with Registax is Y800 (which is a raw matrix from the bayer matrix of the CCD - ie, no colour in the image).

Registax then needs to be told to "Debayer", and use the "GB" setting to get the colour right.


If you try to use any of the other 2 codecs when saving your AVI, Registax will choke. There are ways around it, but trust me, just get it right and it will save you heaps of headaches as well as time.

Turbo
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  #60  
Old 08-12-2007, 09:06 AM
Dennis
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Hi Turbo

It’s been a while since I used our (Firewire) DBK21AF04.AS, but I seem to remember using the format UYVY when capturing in colour (as displayed on the notebook). This allows a max frame rate of 30fps.

With UYVY I have never had any problems opening these avi’s in Registax and I have never had to select "Debayer", or use the "GB" setting to get the colour right.

Therefore, I assume that the UYVY format is a “Native” format to the DBK whereas Y800 is the RAW format and Registax needs to be “told” how to interpret this?

I think in RAW format you can capture at 60fps as the HW/SW is not required to perform any interpretation of the data stream, whereas what I term the “Native” UYVY is limited to 30fps as the HW/SW is performing some coding of the data re luminance and colour data?

Cheers

Dennis
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