Felling go out

[leon]

All your stories and reports here relate to global Warming and you are probably right, but we have not caused this, admittedly we don't help it but it has been happening since the Earth existed, we just happen to be in the middle of it as i speak.

Leon

[RyanJones]

Originally Posted by multiweb

I think we have no choice really. Water is going to be a very precious commodity. Extreme weather events are already here and will increase in frequency and magnitude. We'll have to adapt and quick, with or without the pollies.

Not just adapt but evolve and not rely on any one person or one government to do it.

The truth is, as Carlton eluded to, for the most part, government in its current form is completely unaccountable. Let's be honest, the worst that can happen if a government is completely ineffective is that they don't get elected again. Given that any such government is not actually making change, what is the value of the prime ministership ? Short of dented egos, what is the price of failure ?

This leads us the next problem and again something Carton brought up. So who is going to hold them to account ? Mostly extremist minorities. It very rarely tends to be anyone with reasonable and balanced views that rocks the boat. This is where the change needs to happen. The MAJORITY need to effect change !

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

Originally Posted by glend

Much of that North Qld rain, West of the ranges, will drain down through the Channel Country and into Lake Eyre eventually. West Qld needs that rain.
If corporate farms stopped trying to grow cotton (a water intensive crop) the Murray Darling system would have no problems. These big businesses have ignored water allocations for decades.

Some water will head towards Lake Eyre, but the majority of the inland water will end up in the Gulf of Carpentaria via the Leichardt and Flinders rivers.

I do however agree with the remarks about cotton growing.

[RyanJones]

Originally Posted by leon

All your stories and reports here relate to global Warming and you are probably right, but we have not caused this, admittedly we don't help it but it has been happening since the Earth existed, we just happen to be in the middle of it as i speak.

Leon

For the most part I agree with you Leon. There is no doubt the climate is changing. What has stopped is the human race adapting to that change. Many a historical culture have left land they once called home when it flooded or became arid. Now we stay, I can't work it out.

And for the record. We don't care about climate change for the planet'a sake, it's big enough to create equilibrium without us. We care about change for the sole selfish reason that we as a human race may not survive it.

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by RyanJones

Not just adapt but evolve and not rely on any one person or one government to do it.

The truth is, as Carlton eluded to, for the most part, government in its current form is completely unaccountable.... <Cut to save screen space> It very rarely tends to be anyone with reasonable and balanced views that rocks the boat. This is where the change needs to happen. The MAJORITY need to effect change !

Very, very well said. All of it.

My Uncle was once security staff at Parliament house. Back then, he observed that once the pollies finished bashing each other in the house, they's all go for chats and drinks in the bar/pollies mess/whatever you call it. They put on the show for the camera (question time, etc), taking sides on issues, looking like true believers in their cause(s)... once they knock off, they're all on the same side - their own collective priviledge group. Must be fun playing with the futures of millions...

I couldn't do that job. It's impossible to disconnect my actions from the consequences. What's wrong with me?

Someone screen cap this thread, just incase the revolution starts here

[Outcast (Carlton)]

There is a saying Andy, Power corrupts.. absolute power, corrupts absolutely..

There are still some very good people that enter politics for the right reasons; however, party systems blunt their efforts & fickle electorates vote them out because they are seen to achieve nothing..

I agree with an earlier post, there really is very little to separate the two major parties in this country & whilst I will say the Greens do offer some real alternatives, sadly they have some very odd takes on certain things as well...

Nothing will change, unless we the people, wake up to the fact that we've been conned... not just in recent times but, in reality, for hundreds, if not thousands of years...

Divide and conquer... it's been the mantra of those in power since power structures first emerged.. while we are busy squabbling over the scraps the 'elite' deign to throw us... then the world will continue as it is..

I'm not (despite possible appearances) a conspiracy theory whackjob... I lived far closer to politics in my youth than I ever wanted to.. I saw the machinations, backstabbing & pure *******ry that was politics.. & that was just within one party...

It's about power... those who have it.. those who want it & those of us who think we don't...

But, we do, we actually have real power... we just have to be prepared to exercise it.. we just have to be prepared to say NO... we just need to stop worrying about what extra we think our neighbour gets, or how that person over there get's something I don't.. & start seriously considering what is required to get us all living a decent life....

How do we do this... well... write to the paper, talk to your friends.. have serious conversations.. don't just whinge about who's f...g over who.. talk about the world we'd actually like to live in... then start organising...

It's hardwork... & largely, no-one wants to hear it... (probably why i have few friends.. LOL)... but, until we do start 'having those conversations', taking the time to actually learn about complex issues & figure out the truth.. or as close as we can come to it in this age of BS & spin.. then nothing will change... nothing at all...

I'll be honest... I swore after witnessing what my father went through in politics I would never get involved... not in that way at least... & I haven't but, slowly but, surely.. I'm working on getting off my arse... I won't run for parliament, I will not join a political party but, I'm starting to make myself heard.. not with emotional rants.. not with partisan comments about who is better than who but, by reading, researching & cutting through the BS to try & shape the world I want & I want my kids & yours & that person who is not like me on the otherside of the planet to live in...

And we have a hell of a ways to go...

[Outcast (Carlton)]

Graham,

Slight tangent but, I'm intrigued.. I do not have any real personal experience in the agriculture industry so won't pretend that I know a great deal about it....

I have however, seen evidence first hand (particularly in the riverland , albeit some time back) of farmers who seemed very stuck in their ways.. doing things the way OlGrandpappy did it..

I have some involvement in the sugar cane industry here in Cairns & indeed see many cane farmers who are extremely innovative in their approach towards gaining the best from their land.. including rotating in crops to be ploughed in to replenish the soil from what their main crop takes out...

I myself use drip feed to the majority of my plants in my garden, but only because I learned through experience & willingness to experiment that this actually developed stronger, hardier plants that don't push my waterbill to areas I can't afford...

How do we get those few diehards (& I genuinely think they still exist but, am willing to be proved wrong) to change their methodology to something more suited to our environment... do we incentivise them? Do we punish them.. do we just keep trying to educate them or, do we just wait them out, til the new, 'smarter' generation takes over..

Genuinely curious.. because clearly there is still a problem with some of our methods or perhaps our crop choices? Since lack of irrigation water seems to be a big issue right across this country, not just limited to the Murray Darling basin.. despite media appearances...

Regards monitoring.. I know rural & remote connectivity is pitiful in this country.. but, do you think remote/wireless monitoring of water useage, or any other regulated resource is the future.. or do we need more boots on the ground?

Surely there sensible & practical solutions to the issues & challenges involved...

Originally Posted by GrahamL

Having been involved in agriculture for almost 30 years , water usage is always an issue that comes up over and again , simply put if you halve your water usage by better irrigation methods you double your cultivated area any notion corporate producers or any large water users think otherwise is not probably true.


Monitoring I have always found to be exclusively paper compliance

Not once has anyone come and checked pumping stations or read required meters .

[Ukastronomer (Jeremy)]

Originally Posted by Outcast

Okay.. I'm gonna wade into this (pardon the pun)...

Firstly, I am in no way a defender of cotton farms but, I watched an interesting snippet on Dateline the other night &, the whole issue is far more complex than any one side wants to acknowledge.

Okay, what I learned...

Cotton farming in Australia is not actually as water intensive as you might think.. despite some of the images that are bandied about on social media, particularly in relation to Cobbie station.. In fact, Australian cotton farming is the envy of the world (true, I kid you not) due to the way in which the farms here have reduced water useage, yet increased yield.

Fact; many of the crops grown in Australia are far more water intensive than cotton but, I don't disagree with the fact that it seems an interesting choice of crop to grow in a region that isn't renowned for consistent rainfall & water supply.

What else I have learned is that the biggest issues of all are:

(a) Water theft - people (and not just corporate farms) taking considerably more than their allocated amount.
(b) Lack of monitoring & enforcement - multiple farmers in the M/D basin area were demonstrating their latest 'sealed & locked' irrigation monitoring equipment as mandated by the MD management board... that, no-one actually comes and monitors...
(c) Constant bickering by the states as to whom is ripping off whom / mismanaging the system
(d) Drought.. yes, this does indeed play a significant role in the problem

The Governments involved (yes all of them, doesn't matter the flavour) love this ****.. because the more people bicker, point fingers, etc... the less they actually have to do to fix the problem..

I grew up in Adelaide.. driest friggin state in the country... In the riverland, some people started to wise up & switch from open ditch irrigation of fruit crops to dripfeed, straight to the root base.. yields sky rocketed, water useage for those farms plummeted... What did the government do with all that extra water... well, it allowed those farmers to onsell their unused allocation to those who refused to move away from open ditch irrigation...

The reality is, we can have all the great schemes in the world.. all the monitoring technology the world can offer but, if there is no political will to actively monitor useage, offer incentives to reduce use, enforce even the existing rules.. then.. nothing will change...

It's not just the same with water allocations/management, it's the same with everything.. just look at the Banking Royal Commission report.. sure the banks did bad things.. but, the rules to protect customers already existed.. the commission to enforce those rules existed... but, did sweet FA!!

You want change... then stand up & demand it.. join the farmers who also want change... stop the bull**** & stop allowing our politicians to remain unaccountable for their failures...

I remember to some extent (I was still quite young), the seventies.. when people got up and marched in the street to demand change.. pretty much now... no-one bothers... we comment on social media... (me too...)..

It's time we got off our collective butts & reminded these idiots who they work for...

Please, I don't want this to turn into a political debate... left vs right vs whatever... it is we the people (yeah, a seppo term I know) that continue to allow this crap to happen because we are apathetic!! We all want someone (else) to do something about it...

Rant over.. you can all chill now... Mods, if this breaches forum rules, I apologise... it wasn't intentional & feel free to delete...

I suppose this had something to do with my original post though I can not see how ?????

[JA]

Originally Posted by Ukastronomer

I suppose this had something to do with my original post though I can not see how ?????

Well a thread is an open discourse and as one person makes a point another responds and builds on it. It can go in any number of places, more so as more people enter the discussion. From my point of view I can see a link or thread through the discussion, which leads to there. I think it's an interesting discussion, in all of its various elements.

My heart goes out to the flood victims and their families. I cannot imagine the despair, upheaval and sadness they must face.

Best
JA

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Ukastronomer

I suppose this had something to do with my original post though I can not see how ?????

Well there are many approahes that could be taken and I expect you think threads should remain strictly on topic, which is reasonable and may even find support in the TOS, and when I say may be hasten to point out that the idea just popped in to my head and so one really should read the TOS carefully to find out if I am correct or not but certainly I do not propose that you do or any one else should and i certainly wont bother however irrespective of what the TOS declares or not I think we will find a loose division upon the question as to threads remaining strictly on topic so I dont expect putting the question to a membetship vote would take us anywhere and certainly those who found their idea was not supported by the vote perhaps would not be swayed to change their mind or position and irrespective of what the TOS may set out or the result of a vote upon the issue I doubt if either would allow for the fact the forum is titled "general chat" which may or may not suggest a degree of flexibility that may perhaps not exist in other threads but I would say that if I had started a thread and it had the effect of bringing folk out to discuss wider issues that althoigh not strickly on topic but somehow prompted them to think deeply about another not entirely related matter then I would be inclined to feel happy that the thread that I started had some unexpected effect but nevertheless caused someone to express their opinion.
I really dont know.
What do you think?
Alex

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Well there are many ...
What do you think?
Alex

I think this is a typical short, snappy, direct Alex comment.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

I think this is a typical short, snappy, direct Alex comment.

I feel guilty offerring an input of only three sentences.

Alex

[Outcast (Carlton)]

LOL..

You crack me up Alex; I'd love to meet you in real life over a beer & a chat...

I suspect we might both diverge off on different tangents which, could be quite amusing...

Cheers

Carlton

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Well there are many approahes that could be taken and I expect you think threads should remain strictly on topic, which is reasonable and may even find support in the TOS, and when I say may be hasten to point out that the idea just popped in to my head and so one really should read the TOS carefully to find out if I am correct or not but certainly I do not propose that you do or any one else should and i certainly wont bother however irrespective of what the TOS declares or not I think we will find a loose division upon the question as to threads remaining strictly on topic so I dont expect putting the question to a membetship vote would take us anywhere and certainly those who found their idea was not supported by the vote perhaps would not be swayed to change their mind or position and irrespective of what the TOS may set out or the result of a vote upon the issue I doubt if either would allow for the fact the forum is titled "general chat" which may or may not suggest a degree of flexibility that may perhaps not exist in other threads but I would say that if I had started a thread and it had the effect of bringing folk out to discuss wider issues that althoigh not strickly on topic but somehow prompted them to think deeply about another not entirely related matter then I would be inclined to feel happy that the thread that I started had some unexpected effect but nevertheless caused someone to express their opinion.
I really dont know.
What do you think?
Alex

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Well there are many approahes... ...express their opinion.
I really dont know.
What do you think?
Alex

There's some quality word salad there Alex. I join others in thanking you.

Originally Posted by Outcast

LOL..

You crack me up Alex; I'd love to meet you in real life over a beer & a chat...

I suspect we might both diverge off on different tangents which, could be quite amusing...

Cheers

Carlton

I humbly recommend careful consideration before such a meeting. It may trigger a singularity that consumes a fair chunk of known space. I'm too young to die

[xelasnave]

Now getlemen you have sidetrackered the thread.
Actually how is it going in the flood areas or rather how are the folk made homeless being cared for.
I dont listen to the news and not tempted unless Kevin is making a new move on Julia so I dont really keep up to date...but I have been wondering if now that the floods have been sensationalised if any one has heard any more...I only had enough rain here to ruin my loverly little table that I purchased at Aldi for $30 ..I was so happy with it but the little rain it suffered has caused the cardboard stuff to colapse...and I was so happy because something similar from Bunnings would have been double the price but in retrospect the Bunnings table is plastic, I dont know if it is real plastic, but whatever it is it seems water proof...I never thought to cover the table or bring it in in case of rain...it shows just how careful you must be in astronomy as there is always something that will cause you grief...but seriously I hope the poor folk who have had their lives ruined by the flood have not been forgoten because their misfortune has been reported and the media are now busy seeking new misfortune to keep their caring audience satisfied.

And it would be nice to meet various folk in person but I think it could only be a disappointment for them as I am a very shy person and certainly not good with normal conversation.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Here you go Jeremy so you get an idea of the place.

https://youtu.be/fJJ_Vwp5SGQ

Alex

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Here you go Jeremy so you get an idea of the place.

https://youtu.be/fJJ_Vwp5SGQ

Alex

*Disclaimer: Idea of the place, yes. The people... well only 63% of us are total yobbos (video related).

[Ukastronomer (Jeremy)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Here you go Jeremy so you get an idea of the place.

https://youtu.be/fJJ_Vwp5SGQ

Alex

But what does that have to do with where I live in Wales as I posted

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Ukastronomer

But what does that have to do with where I live in Wales as I posted

Weather related content including references to humans☺
Alex

[casstony]

There's an interesting documentary available on SBS on demand called 'The Third Industrial Revolution'.

Economic and social theorist Jeremy Rifkin paints a dire picture of our current problems but offers a positive outlook in regard to employment and our climate.