#681  
Old 12-03-2017, 07:58 AM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
Luka : did functions dialogs with firmware change ?? How do you manage "power %" and dht22 reading calls ?
I'm in Indi mood now that my cooling hardware seems to work ...
EDIT : Ok, cam86.dll contains a lot of new features... i need to be more patient...
EDIT2 : Sorry, i didn't noticed some parts of your source on GD, i will check that

Last edited by gehelem; 12-03-2017 at 08:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #682  
Old 12-03-2017, 01:10 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
Gilles, see the folder source code/luka.
Cam86_fw is the firmware and that has all the commands. In particular the "set commands" are in the function interrupt at the beginning of the file while the "read commands" are at the end of the file in function resi.

Cam86ll is the low level driver while cam86 is the high level ascom driver.
Reply With Quote
  #683  
Old 13-03-2017, 11:53 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
My fingers are itching to add more options to the driver so I have been thinking and thinking... Considering that everybody is using different cooling (different size of cold finger, different TEC and heatsink), the parameters used for the PID loop will definitely not be optimised for everybody's camera.

Is it worth making these parameters adjustable so people can determine the optimum values for themselves?

The danger is that lots of people will not know how to tune PID loops. Bad parameters can lead to oscillatory or unstable behaviour of the temperature. But tuning them properly can lead to faster cooldown and less or no over/undershooting of the temperature.

Also note that we are only using the proportional part of the PID loop with the constant Kp set to 0.04 - this is the only variable than can be tuned. Higher values will make the temperature control more aggressive but it may never settle.

I have a feeling that I am opening a can of worms here
Reply With Quote
  #684  
Old 14-03-2017, 02:39 AM
pat30 (Patrice)
Registered User

pat30 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: France
Posts: 119
Luka you make me laugh, a few days ago when I talked about it you told me that it was a lot of work and today you want to do it

Personally I think it would be a very good thing, the PID settings are well documented for the settings so those who want can find it easily on the web.

A few months ago I had spoken to him at Vakula and he had said the same thing as you; I do not know the work that it represents but there is the autotune that would make the adjustments automatically, after it is easy for me to say it because I do not know how to do .
Reply With Quote
  #685  
Old 15-03-2017, 05:08 PM
rsevs3 (Ryan)
Registered User

rsevs3 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Perth
Posts: 10
I just got home from work and this mountain of goodies has been delivered over the last week!

Just need to organise some boards from Luka and we will be under construction.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (IMG_20170315_180050[1].jpg)
163.5 KB43 views
Reply With Quote
  #686  
Old 17-03-2017, 07:35 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
Back in town.

Pat, I can make the Kp parameter adjustable but the PID autotuning in the firmware will be difficult. Also we are not using the full PID but only the P (proportional) part and the standard autotune code won't work.

I will investigate doing autotuning from the PC, it may be easier. Or perhaps also adding the integral part? Can't see much advantage in doing this though as proportional seems to do the job well.


Few clarifications about the firmware:
1. My firmware is backwards compatible with the old versions of the viewer or the ASCOM driver. I only added new options but did not modify any of the old code (apart from the cooling).
2. Original Grim's firmware will NOT work with the new ASCOM driver as it is missing all the additions.

When I get free time I will put the driver on the Github and post on the Ukrainian forums. Grim/Faddy did not comment about any more bugs so I think we are ready.
Reply With Quote
  #687  
Old 17-03-2017, 10:45 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
New firmware (0.4L) and driver (0.6.5L) are out in the usual spot.

I have added the option to adjust the Kp, the proportional gain of the PID loop. As I don't have any cooling the driver is experimental and untested.

Pat and Gilles, if your cameras are working can you test the firmware/driver. You will need to:
1. Set the starting cooling power to zero and start the cooling. Record the time profile of the temperature going down. You don't need to go very low in temperature, 10-15 degrees lower than the ambient temperature is probably enough to test the driver.
2. Let the camera warm up.
3. Modify the Kp parameter and redo the test.
Default Kp is 0.04, try setting it to 0.1 or even larger. Note that if the temperature oscillates and goes crazy you have gone too high.
Please monitor the temperature at all times during the test, the driver is experimental.

With a larger Kp the temperature should go down quicker.

Regarding the tuning of Kp, the usual guide is to keep increasing it until you see oscillations. Then halve the value and that's it. There is lots of material on Google about tuning the PID loops. Again note that we only have the proportional term.
Reply With Quote
  #688  
Old 18-03-2017, 05:06 AM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
Okay i will try tonight
I've made tests today....into my fridge...
I went down to -42 on ccd side, so I'm not afraid

2 other things :
-I went back to linux driver, a few new things start to work
-I will have a thermal camera during one week. I'm just beginning to play with it, but i'm sure it will give us interesting informations. I you have any suggestions to make test, plz tell me....
Reply With Quote
  #689  
Old 18-03-2017, 07:41 AM
pat30 (Patrice)
Registered User

pat30 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: France
Posts: 119
Luka, the driver does not work at home, see the error message in picture.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.JPG
Views:	16
Size:	83.7 KB
ID:	211500
Reply With Quote
  #690  
Old 18-03-2017, 07:42 AM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
I have a problem, the same when i use Nebulosity (see attachment)
=> Rollback to previous firmware and driver...

EDIT : after rollback to driver 6.4, i have the same problem
Some kind of configuration/profile not properly removed, or something ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (Screen Shot 03-17-17 at 10.36 PM.PNG)
29.2 KB20 views

Last edited by gehelem; 18-03-2017 at 07:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #691  
Old 18-03-2017, 04:17 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
Few times I noticed that the uninstall of the old driver does not work properly and that the upgrade may fail.

Can you go to folder
C:\Program Files\Common Files\ASCOM\Camera\Cam86
and check the timestamps of ASCOM.cam86.Camera.dll and of cam86ll.dll
and let me know. I can compare and try to see what went wrong.

Can you then try deleting all files from
C:\Program Files\Common Files\ASCOM\Camera\Cam86
folder and then reinstalling the new driver.
Reply With Quote
  #692  
Old 18-03-2017, 07:37 PM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
I've uninstalled every camxx driver (i had cam84 too) with windows program manager.
I've checked C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\ASCOM\Camera
It was empty.
Then I've installed again new cam86 driver.
(See attachment for timestamps)
Still KO
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (Screen Shot 03-18-17 at 10.36 AM.PNG)
35.8 KB20 views
Reply With Quote
  #693  
Old 18-03-2017, 07:46 PM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
I've noticed my ascom version is 6.1 : i'im trying to update
Reply With Quote
  #694  
Old 18-03-2017, 07:51 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
Thanks Gilles, I was just testing it here (with ASCOM 6.3) and it works fine.

(I also found and fixed two little bugs in night colour mode)
Reply With Quote
  #695  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:11 PM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
an idea :
Now i'm on ascom 6.3, and i get the same message than Pat.
Reading the message, it looks like a conversion problem...
One though : here in France we use decimal separator "," instead of "."...
This is often a problem when formating strings.
I think there's a windows parameter to play with it, will check.
Reply With Quote
  #696  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:15 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
I think you are on the right track...
Can you run the ASCOM profile explorer and go to camera-cam86 section and post a screenshot that shows the settings
Reply With Quote
  #697  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:15 PM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
TADAAA !
That's it : regional parameters, we need to change decimal separator
Will inform Pat

=> Starting tests
Reply With Quote
  #698  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:19 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
Gilles, in the ASCOM profile explorer, in cam86view section, can you change the KP parameter from 0.04 to 0,04 and then try the driver.
Reply With Quote
  #699  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:23 PM
luka's Avatar
luka
Unregistered User

luka is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,117
Ah, we posted at the same time. I will fix this later today. let's see first how you go with the tests.

The problem is that the default value gets initialised as a string, I.e. as "0.04" and later it fails to convert to double.
Reply With Quote
  #700  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:24 PM
gehelem (Gilles)
Registered User

gehelem is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Rambouillet - France
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by luka View Post
I think you are on the right track...
Can you run the ASCOM profile explorer and go to camera-cam86 section and post a screenshot that shows the settings
See attachment below
Playing with windows regional parameters works, but if there's a way to tweak that only for ascom it would be great
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (Screen Shot 03-18-17 at 11.20 AM.PNG)
28.9 KB29 views
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 01:05 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Astromechanics
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Celestron RASA
Advertisement
Lunatico Astronomical
Advertisement
Star Adventurer
Advertisement
EQ8-R
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement
Astronomy and Electronics Centre
Advertisement