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Old 20-01-2020, 12:22 AM
Bobbyoutback
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Test your scope

Would you like to test your scopes ultimate performance ?

The trap in Orion is well placed for this at the moment , a good 6/8" inch can show the E & F stars , lets push a bit deeper ' can you see the G star , it's inside the tapezium at magnitude 13.68 .

Now for those who have monster scopes , the H star is 15.3 & the I star 16.3

Scroll for reference here : https://www.skyandtelescope.com/obse...ons-trapezium/

Good Luck
Bobby
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Old 20-01-2020, 12:30 AM
m11 (Mel)
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Thanks for the link Bobby, interesting reading.

I have only seen e and f for sure. I think I have seen G once.
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Old 20-01-2020, 12:49 AM
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LewisM
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All we see in Canberra is cloud, smoke, more cloud, more smoke.

I BRIEFLY got to see Orion 2 weeks ago. I'd even forgotten it was up at present. Sad state of affairs.
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Old 20-01-2020, 01:01 AM
Bobbyoutback
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Wow to here from Mel

Quote:
Originally Posted by m11 View Post
Thanks for the link Bobby, interesting reading.

I have only seen e and f for sure. I think I have seen G once.
Hi Mel ' thanks for your comment , with the gear you have i'm sure you got to see the G star .
And when you get the 24" scope this year with Zambuto optics both the H & I stars will be possible !

Best Wishes
Bobby .
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Old 20-01-2020, 01:26 AM
croweater (Richard)
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Hi Bobby. The E and F stars pretty easy on a reasonable night in my 8" Parks. Cheers, Richard.
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  #6  
Old 20-01-2020, 01:42 AM
Bobbyoutback
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Originally Posted by croweater View Post
Hi Bobby. The E and F stars pretty easy on a reasonable night in my 8" Parks. Cheers, Richard.
Thanks Richard for your conformation using an 8" scope .

Bobby
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  #7  
Old 20-01-2020, 07:14 AM
m11 (Mel)
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Hey Bobby,

Hope things are well my friend. 🤗

You have inspired to try to find the fainter stars. 👍

Lol, let's hope so 😛, you are always welcome to come down view and see if we can spot them. 😁

All the best,
Mel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbyoutback View Post
Hi Mel ' thanks for your comment , with the gear you have i'm sure you got to see the G star .
And when you get the 24" scope this year with Zambuto optics both the H & I stars will be possible !

Best Wishes
Bobby .
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  #8  
Old 20-01-2020, 08:26 AM
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JeniSkunk (Jenifur)
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Here in my area of Brisbane, clouds, rain, and storms are what's predicted by BOM for the week. So seeing anything other than clouds, very long odds.

As for my best time for seeing Orion and the trap, well that was back in December last year. Which was while the the smoke from the November QLD fires was still clearing.
Unfortunately, that was also when the clouds started rolling in of a night.
That after waiting for 11 months for a decent chance of another look at Orion.
And with my moving home mid this year, with the way the new place is facing, I won't get a decent chance again till March 2021.

edit: fix typo

Last edited by JeniSkunk; 20-01-2020 at 02:01 PM. Reason: fix typo
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  #9  
Old 20-01-2020, 08:31 AM
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The Mekon (John Briggs)
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Bobby,

Detecting the fainter stars in the trapezium is not only a test of the instrument, but also the observer and conditions. I have looked for the G and H stars in very good conditions at high magnification with a fine 18" scope and not succeeded. The G star is only 5 or 6 arc seconds from the 6th mag D star so even at mag 13 (some sources say it is 16th mag) it would be very difficult to detect being so close to a bright star. This G star was discovered at Lick with a 36" scope so I reckon the minimum needed, knowing that it is there, is half that aperture. I have asked Allan Wade who has a superb 32" whether he has spotted any of the additional stars in the Trapezium and as I recall he said he has seen the H star, he may also have seen the G.
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Old 20-01-2020, 09:10 AM
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Atmos (Colin)
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I’ve seen the E&F stars in my 4” Tak. The E Star is easily spotted by the F Star is faint and on that night (above average seeing) it would pot in and out of view. Took a minute or so before I could confirm it and that it wasn’t my imagination
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  #11  
Old 20-01-2020, 10:11 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Eagerly waiting to use my 12” Goto dob when we eventually get a smoke free night ( scopes probably got spiders all through it in the garage )
I have a swag of Televue eye pieces including my new Apollo 11 eye piece
Maybe this week ?????
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Old 20-01-2020, 10:19 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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Saw Trap E in a 3" a few years back. No luck yet with F. 4" should show it with reasonable confidence cf. Colin's post. As a side note, I looked at the Trapezium through an f/13 Telementor under continental seeing while in Europe over the holidays, and while I did not see E or F, the view of the asterism was the cleanest I've ever had (the nebula wasn't bad either). Spending most of my time under this coastal seeing that was a stunning sight.

Will try Trap G & beyond with the 8" when time permits. Nice challenge thanks.

Edit: Maybe not G then (just read John's post below)...

Last edited by N1; 20-01-2020 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 20-01-2020, 10:31 AM
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Tinderboxsky (Steve)
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The E & F stars are a straight forward observation in my Vixen 4” doublet ED103S from my relatively dark skies, subject to suitable seeing conditions.
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Old 20-01-2020, 12:01 PM
BlackSheep (Karl)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM View Post
All we see in Canberra is cloud, smoke, more cloud, more smoke.

I BRIEFLY got to see Orion 2 weeks ago. I'd even forgotten it was up at present. Sad state of affairs.
I looked at the forecast for Saturday night just gone, was looking good, started planning, got my gear ready and the smoke haze rolled in in the late afternoon evening. Called it there. Went outside before going to bed at 11pm and it was the most crystal clearest sky I have seen in weeks, I went to be grumpy that night haha. Orion was sitting there perfectly, and the first time I've been able to see the brightness change of Betelgeuse
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Old 20-01-2020, 12:52 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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I've mentioned several times on this forum having seen Trap. G, H1 & H2 (not I) from Sydney in 2013 with my 17.5". I fluked a night of staggering stable seeing and surprisingly good transparency. The image I saw had me scurrying to find info on the Trapezium- there is actually very little info about the fainter stars in this open cluster, and there are very few deep photos of the Trapezium. I would guess because most people just don't know beyond the first six stars of the Trapezium and don't see the challenge that imaging the Trapezium presents. The nebula takes all the glory, but the little nuggets within it are next to totally unknown.

Seeing these fainter stars needs all your ducks to align:
* aperture
* good scope
* excellent seeing
* good transparency
* good vision

Hell of a set.

The sketch below was done at approx 200X.

Alex.

PS, following a request of mine back in 2015 for photos of the Trapezium, Dennis provided this amazing work of his: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=25156
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (M42 Sydney 17.5 Trapesium.jpg)
89.2 KB56 views

Last edited by mental4astro; 20-01-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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  #16  
Old 20-01-2020, 05:44 PM
Bobbyoutback
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Thanks to all who shared there experiences regarding the Trap

Alex ' what superb drawing , I can see the supple green tones as well !

Bobby .
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Old 20-01-2020, 05:59 PM
Wavytone
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Close doubles - with dissimilar brightness - offer the ultimate test. Start with the WDS catalog.

Sirius, Antares, Acrux just for starters. The one that will really test the scope is Rigel - small scopes under 10” won’t split it.
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Old 20-01-2020, 06:34 PM
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The Mekon (John Briggs)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone View Post
Close doubles - with dissimilar brightness - offer the ultimate test. Start with the WDS catalog.

Sirius, Antares, Acrux just for starters. The one that will really test the scope is Rigel - small scopes under 10” won’t split it.
Sirius, Antares - yes but Acrux?? Perhaps you mean Adhara? As for Rigel, I reckon in good conditions a 50mm will do it!
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Old 20-01-2020, 07:09 PM
Wavytone
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Hehe depends on the scope ! Yes Acrux, for some this will be difficult. Rigel will be difficult in less than 15cm scopes. If you think you split that with a 50mm you’re not looking at Rigel B.
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Old 20-01-2020, 08:43 PM
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The Mekon (John Briggs)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone View Post
Hehe depends on the scope ! Yes Acrux, for some this will be difficult. Rigel will be difficult in less than 15cm scopes. If you think you split that with a 50mm you’re not looking at Rigel B.
Maybe I am a little hopeful at 50mm. But some sources (Burnhams) say Rigel be can be seen in a 3" in good conditions. I will check with my 60mm and reckon I have a good chance if conditions are good.

Perhaps we need to take a step back - for much of the country there has not been any decent observing for months to test any of our scopes.
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