#1  
Old 27-07-2020, 05:59 AM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
ASI183MC Pro or ASI533MC Pro

Hi guys

I'm a newbie in this forum and also starting to learn about astrophoto using my mirrorless, My telescope is Skywatcher ED72 and i lived in Bortle 5 and has other property on Bortle 2. Im not ready for Monochrome camera, may be in future

I have shortlisted 2 cameras in my mind, ASI183mc Pro and ASi553mc pro. I know the different (Picture Shape, Sensor Size, resolutions and Amp-glow) with these 2 cameras.

Now the question is which one should I get for my 1st OSC astrocamera.

I asked several shop they said get ASI183mc pro and spend the different on proper program like PI or APP.
I know about the shape of the picture (Square v Rectangle) I prefer the rectangle as is more normal in my eyes.

As for the sensor size i know Asi183mc-p is smaller but With binning should be the same as Asi has enough resolution to do it and for the Amp-glow I know ASI533mc-p virtually no ampglow whatsoever as the 183mc-p has alot of it but can be remove with calibration (which is another skill to master)

so can any of you point me to the right direction
asi183mc pro or asi533mc pro the price different is about $100 which is good amount to fund proper program (APP or PI). I cant believe choosing this is harder than naming your kids
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27-07-2020, 06:20 AM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,877
Hi Brian,

I got the 183mm Pro. Its a good little camera but the amp glow is a bit annoying as I have only used dedicated astro CCDs before.
So the 533 with no amp glow would be my choice. It has lower read noise, higher 14bit converters and same surface area. The 183 has the nicer rectangular shape but I think you'll find that is a minor advantage as I also image with a 16803 CCD which is square and never find the shape a problem.

I got the 183 because it offered a mono version.

With no amp glow you most likely won't need to do any image callibration at all. Perhaps flats but the small sensor may not vignette anyway.
Amp glow means exactly matching darks. That matching in temperature, duration, gain, offset. So you can get a lot of combinations. Slightly mismatch the darks (you don't use bias frames with these cameras) and the amp glow does not fully clean up.

If all these cameras suffered from amp glow it would hold their future back enormously. But the later models seem to have conquered that.

The 3.76 micron pixels of the 533 sound the same as the very popular ASI2600 and 6200 models and will suit small refractors well.
They will still be workable up to medium focal length scopes. The 2.4 micron pixels of the 183 will start to be a mismatch as you get longer in focal length and require nights of good seeing to work well.

Also 50,000 electron well depth is very nice compared to about 15,000 with the 183. This means you'll be able to retain good star colours on longer exposures compared to the 183.

Read noise is also significantly lower on the 533. Apart from the shape I don't see any advantage of the 183 over the 533. Its one sided.

Having said that I am finding the 183mm Pro a nice camera to work with.

One aspect I have not heard anyone else say but I am finding the very small pixels make my scopes harder to focus than with my CCDs. Quite a bit harder. Small focus changes don't seem to very the image as much as usual and weak seeing can then make it very hard to focus accurately.

3.76 micron pixels of the 533 are also quite small as the smallest CCD pixels are usually around 4.54 microns.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27-07-2020, 09:15 AM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
thx greg for ur input... but is using asi183mc pro will be more hassle? compare to 553? and is it easy to remove the amp-glow ?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27-07-2020, 09:47 AM
nsavage (Nick)
Registered User

nsavage is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 87
I have a 183MC. First camera I have ever tried using for Astrophotography. Managed to get my first subs on Saturday night.

I messed up my flats and was unable to use them. The image below is using my darks only. I am not even 100% certain I got the darks right to be honest. I asked some questions elsewhere regarding my flat frames and I was told that if I get them right I will be able to get rid of the amp glow. Have seen plenty of pictures taken with the 183 cameras that do not have amp glow present so I am confident it is possible.

Once again bear in mind that these are the first photos I have taken with the camera so by no means are they anywhere near perfect. I just felt it was a great opportunity to give an example from a very novice user.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (Trifid Darks Only.jpg)
118.9 KB292 views
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27-07-2020, 11:17 AM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
good to know. that the amp glow can be remove.. is DSS will able to remove.it or I have to use specialise program like PI or APP, and also is the learning curve to remove the amp glow?

also is the 20MPX of the 183 is better when use the 2x2 binning as is produce enough resolution?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27-07-2020, 11:37 AM
nsavage (Nick)
Registered User

nsavage is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by echocae View Post
good to know. that the amp glow can be remove.. is DSS will able to remove.it or I have to use specialise program like PI or APP, and also is the learning curve to remove the amp glow?

also is the 20MPX of the 183 is better when use the 2x2 binning as is produce enough resolution?
I have no idea re the binning. So far I am just using DSS. I have an image with my (very bad flats included and the amp glow looks like it may be less but it is very hard to tell).

The below picture was posted by someone when I asked the question elsewhere and they said they are able to get rid of the amp glow using good darks and properly created flats. Only time will tell for me as to whether this is true or not but it gives me hope.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (114097351_10158010697176443_6584841734039853854_o.jpg)
210.4 KB155 views
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27-07-2020, 12:16 PM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
at the moment.. im towards 183mc pro.. rather than 553mc pro.. coz i think Square picture looks wierd... and also asi183 is older camera.. it seems most people already know tips n tricks of this camera.. am I right?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27-07-2020, 12:35 PM
Camelopardalis's Avatar
Camelopardalis (Dunk)
Drifting from the pole

Camelopardalis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,425
The 183 is a known quantity at this point. The amp glow can be a little variable and may not calibrate perfectly every time...although note that my 183 is uncooled, so you should have more luck with the cooled version.

There's not a lot of doubt that the 533 will prove to be a solid performer.

Besides the amp glow, the other main pro/con between the two is the pixel size. The 2.4 micron pixels on the 183 like light...expect to take longer exposures with the 183 than the 533 (which has larger pixels).

Oh and you can't bin a colour image in the same way as mono CCDs. Each "colour" pixel is constructed of a cluster of 4 pixels, 2 green, 1 red and 1 blue...so if you bin 2x2 you end up with a single black and white pixel. You can, of course, resample the image down after you have processed it
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27-07-2020, 12:49 PM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
The 183 is a known quantity at this point. The amp glow can be a little variable and may not calibrate perfectly every time...although note that my 183 is uncooled, so you should have more luck with the cooled version.

There's not a lot of doubt that the 533 will prove to be a solid performer.

Besides the amp glow, the other main pro/con between the two is the pixel size. The 2.4 micron pixels on the 183 like light...expect to take longer exposures with the 183 than the 533 (which has larger pixels).

Oh and you can't bin a colour image in the same way as mono CCDs. Each "colour" pixel is constructed of a cluster of 4 pixels, 2 green, 1 red and 1 blue...so if you bin 2x2 you end up with a single black and white pixel. You can, of course, resample the image down after you have processed it
so what exposure (sec/mins) of the amp glow start to become uncalibrated.. fo you know?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27-07-2020, 12:53 PM
Camelopardalis's Avatar
Camelopardalis (Dunk)
Drifting from the pole

Camelopardalis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,425
From what I've heard, you want to keep your exposures below 10 minutes. The longest I've take have been 4 minutes, and I had no problem with it.

The amp glow can look quite frightening in a single uncalibrated sub, but I find it usually calibrates out well.

It just seems that some people's workflow make them more or less susceptible to it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27-07-2020, 01:03 PM
Spartacus's Avatar
Spartacus
Registered User

Spartacus is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 56
Hi Brian, the amp glow should be able to be calibrated out reliably if the camera is cooled as the calibration masters should if possible be done at the same gain, offset, exposure length and temperature. With an uncooled camera this is more difficult to achieve and may require darks to be done in the same evening as the lights which is a pain. Either that or a note made of the ambient temp and try to approximately replicate when doing darks especially.
The exposure will make the amp glow worse but if the darks are addressing all the above variables the amp glow should calibrate out well.
I don't have the 183 but do have a 294 which if anything has even worse amp glow but still calibrates out (I have used up to 300 sec exposures) so I don't think that you should worry about amp glow being a factor.
Having said all that the 533 does look nice. Getting advice if something goes wrong is always more difficult with newly released gear.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27-07-2020, 01:10 PM
nsavage (Nick)
Registered User

nsavage is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 87
So I worked out what I was doing wrong in DSS and changed a setting and I was able to integrate my subs, flats, dark flats and darks and remove the amp glow.

Again this is with the ASI183MC PRO and this is my first image, EVER. Never shot astrophotography before. I have a long way to go but so far pretty happy with the result.

Also once again the point I am trying ot make is that a novice user can get photos with the 183MC PRO and remove the amp glow.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (Trifid Final - Copy.jpg)
197.5 KB172 views
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27-07-2020, 01:37 PM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
Ok...I just arrive home.. and my wife suprise me with early bday present and is an Asi183mc Pro... now everything is real... i hope I made the right decission... for asi183 mc pro...and also what is the possibility that u need exposure more than 7-10mins?
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (IMG_20200727_035822.jpg)
162.5 KB64 views
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27-07-2020, 01:42 PM
nsavage (Nick)
Registered User

nsavage is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by echocae View Post
Ok...I just arrive home.. and my wife suprise me with early bday present and is an Asi183mc Pro... now everything is real... i hope I made the right decission... for asi183 mc pro...and also what is the possibility that u need exposure more than 7-10mins?
This thread will help you with exposure times.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=166567

I also go on to Astrobin and look at what others are doing.

Congratulations on the Birthday present!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27-07-2020, 02:32 PM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsavage View Post
This thread will help you with exposure times.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=166567

I also go on to Astrobin and look at what others are doing.

Congratulations on the Birthday present!
thx for that... now i need to learn how to make master calibration of dark, bias n flat .on DSS.. any pointer? or should i get APP or PI
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 27-07-2020, 03:21 PM
Spartacus's Avatar
Spartacus
Registered User

Spartacus is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 56
Hi Brian,

Happy Birthday. I wish my wife was as generous!!
Check out this video from Robin Glover of SharpCap and the follow up after he ran out of time. It explains about exposure time and the law of diminishing returns with longer subs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RH93UvP358
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub1HjvlCJ5Y

It gives a way of finding out your optimum exposure time for your conditions.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 27-07-2020, 04:34 PM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
I astrophotography friend just now regarding as183mc pro that I recieve from my wife and he told me to return it and get the 533 mc pro instead as he said is easier to work with than 183mc pro because he said im a newbie in dedicated astrocam...

is that true?... or I just keep it ... what u guys think?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27-07-2020, 04:48 PM
nsavage (Nick)
Registered User

nsavage is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by echocae View Post
I astrophotography friend just now regarding as183mc pro that I recieve from my wife and he told me to return it and get the 533 mc pro instead as he said is easier to work with than 183mc pro because he said im a newbie in dedicated astrocam...

is that true?... or I just keep it ... what u guys think?
I guess that is a decision you will have to make yourself. As I have mentioned I am a complete newbie and I managed to get started with it OK.

Also depends on what scope you are going to pair it with. What scope are you planning to pair with the camera?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27-07-2020, 04:52 PM
echocae (Brian)
Registered User

echocae is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Piara Waters
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsavage View Post
I guess that is a decision you will have to make yourself. As I have mentioned I am a complete newbie and I managed to get started with it OK.

Also depends on what scope you are going to pair it with. What scope are you planning to pair with the camera?
im gonna use skywatcher ED72 atm.. and in future i will upgrade to ED80/82

is this camera enough?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 27-07-2020, 05:18 PM
nsavage (Nick)
Registered User

nsavage is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by echocae View Post
im gonna use skywatcher ED72 atm.. and in future i will upgrade to ED80/82

is this camera enough?
If you are shooting widefield you should be fine with the 183.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 04:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement