Q&A on ABC Monday 17th June

[casstony]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

The folk I find interesting are the young Earth creationists who reject "Dawinists" on the basis that one animal could not possibly give birth to another different animal and therefore reject the theory of evolution,

They're supplying evidence of how closely related we are to other animals on the planet. Collectively we're still a bunch of ning nongs barely clawing our way up the evolutionary tree.

[Multiverse (Grant)]

Yes Alex, they hold up faith as some ultimate virtue - faith is really just a trait of the lazy, too lazy in primary school Year 5 to grasp the 'common ancestor' part of the lesson (don't know what they learn in catholic schools, is it walking on water, decomposing bodies rising up & walking around, virgins giving birth or other such nonsense)?
So many catholic school pupils are still put at a very distinct disadvantage from the woeful neglect of a proper education & some never really recover in later life, it can cloud their judgement forever (unfortunately some even become our prime ministers). Add to that the emotional torture of the young school child being told that they will go to a human though construct called 'hell' if they don't assimilate.
In the time of Shakespeare people thought thunder & lightning were the work of gods. Even today people deny the fossil evidence, the DNA evidence, geological evidence, biological evidence - just to name a few.
The human mind is very susceptible to stories (like a bible story), we relied upon story telling from our primate ancestors in Africa to relay important information to survive. Any story will do - it's how people can be stay transfixed & become emotionally invested to a movie fiction or a TV soap opera as if it were real, Hollywood banks on this human trait.

I misjudged the Q&A compare Tony Jones. Upon further investigation I deduce that he must have mentioned gods just to keep it interesting (all about rating of course) see below, my source - Tony Jones Wikipedia;

Religion and philosophy
On Lateline, Jones told atheist advocate Christopher Hitchens that he plans to give the book Letters to a Young Contrarian to his own sons as "something I really hope that they then pass [on] to their children".[10]

Anyone who endorses the Hitch has got my respect!

[xelasnave]

Hi Grant
May I perhaps embarrass you by saying that is one of the best posts that I have ever had the pleasure of reading here.
It is easy to form a conclusion about someone based on something they have said which may be their way of stimulating conversation. And as you say anyone who holds Hitch as perhaps one of the most rational thinkers of our age probably has a reasonable view of the world. He and Dawkins should be compulsory reading from pre school and perhaps some passages read from Hitch upon openning of parliment..how the current babble irritates me ...nonsence it be... If it were not for Hitch I would still be blaming a group whos name starts with N rather than lay the blame at the feet of a group (c) who preached hatred for generations of a group I shall call J. I had worked out most things but that is one horror where Hitch pointed to the real culprit. Sadly they continue to exist notwithstanding their cruel and terrible history.
You may understand the motivation for my bb ramblings and rants better if you consider my concerns evolve from observing the involvement of c☺ and their continued theft of Pagan stories and determination to prove creation...I much prefer an eternal universe ... one that requires no point of creation.
I look at the sovereign citizen movement and find their nonsence can be traced to an unsupported notion of god given rights and so it was of interest when I notived a certain senator with dual citizen ship problems indicated by deed he was perhaps of that following...perhaps he had three citizenships to contend with☺. Their refusal to follow the legitimate laws and statutes reflects the abdication of personal responsibility one must associate with those the focus of Hitch and Dawkins.
I think I have watched every Hitch and Dawkins youtube video...many twice...and today I think I will watch a couple more/again to remind myself yet again what a problem each of these men talk about.
Thanks for your post I truely enjoyed it.
Alex

[Multiverse (Grant)]

I have a bookshelf populated by writings from Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett & Sam Harris - The Four Horsemen.
Yes you're right Alex, watching a Hitchens Youtube debate never grows old!

[Sunfish (Ray)]

Thanks also to you Tony.

ABC catchup definitely worth my 10 cents. And the panel’s ten cents adds up to priceless.

Originally Posted by casstony

Essential viewing, a panel full of scientists including Brian Cox, with no idiots to distract from useful conversation.

https://www.abc.net.au/qanda/

[Renato1 (Renato)]

It transpires that Dr. David Karoly's widely reported "Slam Dunk" against Alan Jones on Q&A was actually an own goal.

Jones provides the evidence in the video below.
Seems compelling to me, else I'd have to disbelieve Karoly's own words.
Cheers,
Renato

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViY2J3LPgN4

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by Multiverse

Yes Alex, they hold up faith as some ultimate virtue - faith is really just a trait of the lazy, too lazy in primary school Year 5 to grasp the 'common ancestor' part of the lesson (don't know what they learn in catholic schools, is it walking on water, decomposing bodies rising up & walking around, virgins giving birth or other such nonsense)?
So many catholic school pupils are still put at a very distinct disadvantage from the woeful neglect of a proper education & some never really recover in later life, it can cloud their judgement forever (unfortunately some even become our prime ministers). Add to that the emotional torture of the young school child being told that they will go to a human though construct called 'hell' if they don't assimilate.

Do I detect Anti-Catholicism in your discussion?

Perhaps you haven't noticed that non-Roman Catholic Christians - Orthodox and Protestant - believe in pretty much the same thing, and some have their own schools too, or are taught it in special religious classes.

PM Malcolm Turnball was an Anglican who converted to Roman Catholicism in 2002. Bill Shorten was a Roman Catholic who converted to Anglicanism.
Scott Morrison is a Pentecostal, and Anthony Albanese describes himself as a non-practicing Catholic.

Religion or religious values seem to be or have been a motivating factor for people to aspire to positions where they can do something to help their fellow citizens in accordance with their political views (which is usually what they promise to do in election campaigns). Is that a bad thing, or have they never really recovered?

A year and half ago, I was listening to talkback radio where they were discussing a recent study that looked at long term outcomes for students who went to different sorts of schools.
Results:
a. Those that went to State schools were ho hum.
b. Those who went to private schools made more money.
c. And those who went to Catholic schools had higher life satisfaction.

The radio host was asking Catholics to ring in trying to find out why life was more satisfying for them.

Which all seems in sharp contrast to the huge disadvantages from which they never recover proposition, that you assert is the case. Any reason why they should have a "proper education" and forego higher life satisfaction? The desire for equity in life outcomes perhaps?
Regards,
Renato

[xelasnave]

Citing a talk back show really offers no indication of the reality and perhaps those findings were "found" by someone with an interest in the out come. Could be something akin to intelligent design advocates finding that a great majority of scientists support intelligent design which is perhaps somewhat suspect. In any event a talk back show is hardley authority for anything.
One wonders why anyone with a decent education would still follow ancient superstition however in the case of polititians perhaps their motivation can be seen as the same thing that drives all their actions words and deeds whoch of course is the desire to get votes...
Alex

[xelasnave]

Mind you I do think any system that allows one to abdicate personal responsibility and blame others for their failures and magic for their sucesses may be helpful to some folk who cant be bothered to study the history and seek evidence of the realities both good and bad and moreover what is indeed the truth.
Interestingly Western religions find their basis in astronomy or rather astrology starting first with observing the Sun stars and planets and personifying their behavior to create various human gods.
But dont believe me study the history of religion and perhaps build such decisions of what is valid or not on the available evidence rather than faith...I find the subject particularly interesting and think it is a shame we should not discuss it here as I am sure even though everyone has different ideas we could discuss it sensibly.
Alex

[PS19.1 (Greg)]

Its way too complicated and perfect to have evolved from an explosion,for me and many others its quite clear in this particular topic that its easier to have faith in God than faith in the scientific theories which as time goes on seem to find it not easier but more difficult to explain.