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  #21  
Old 25-01-2019, 08:23 AM
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DeWynter (ILYA)
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Stephen,

please remember that despite the fact that all what Alexander and Nick have said about choosing eyepieces is correct, you are still in the beginning of the journey and at that stage it could be difficult to digest and apply all that knowledge and therefore sometimes simple and dumb suggestion to "get this and that eyepiece" is exactly what you need. I still very grateful to people at CN forum for suggesting on buying Baader zoom eyepiece at the very beginning and before I read all these articles about how zooms are bad. If I read all that I would never buy it and therefore I would spend lots of money right at the very beginning trying to find ideal eyepiece instead of just observing. Same here - you can start digesting all reviews, trying to understand all issues big boys are dealing with instead of just observing.

Let me provide an example from non-astronomy fields. Can you do 4WD driving on a stock Nissan X-Trail or Toyota RAV4 SUV? Of course you can. I did that for many years with no issues, knowing the capabilities and limitations of the car. However if you read 4WD forums then the suggestion would be "No, you cannot. Get a proper lifted 4WD." And then there could be explanation why. And it will be a proper and correct explanation, but you do not have that. You've got only a SUV and what to start. And the explanation is based on big boys needs. Not yours. So instead of saying "no, you cannot" there could be a suggestion - yes, you can do Stockton Beach sand driving or Lost City, but do not go to Monkey Gap. Or photography – can you make beautiful pictures with simple point and shot camera? Of course you can. If you read photo forums then the suggestion would be to buy a full frame camera and pro lenses with proper explanation why you need that. Yes, you do need that when you are doing that professionally, but not at the very beginning. I'm a pro photographer for quite a while (I've got business, profit etc.) but at the same time I understand the difficulties for the beginner. These are proper suggestions, but even reading all these articles will not save you from lots of frustration. Unfortunately it is a trial and error journey in any case. But you need to start with something.

So my dumb suggestion was based on a few facts:
  • The suggested eyepieces are within the focal range you need.
  • The suggested eyepieces are within the price you need.
  • They both have long eye relief (18-20mm) in case you are wearing glasses.
  • They are of light to moderate size and weight. Not like "hand grenade".
  • ES68 24mm has generous field of view which means you won't be looking through a keyhole.
  • They both have great image quality and perform quite well in fast Dob/Newts, not even counting slow scopes.

Hopefully that will delay some frustration on your eyepiece selection journey for some time and just gives you time to be prepared for the next round.
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  #22  
Old 25-01-2019, 08:24 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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"Looks" like so many eyepiece options...

One thing that you may think is the case with eyepieces is there is a wonderful array of choices. That's what we are led to believe. Reality is a very different situation.

Most telescope manufacturers appear to also make and sell their own eyepieces. No one makes their own eyepieces. Celestron, Meade, Skywatcher, Saxon, TV, Baader, etc. All their eyepieces are made by a handful of predominantly Chinese manufacturers.

And the true variety of eyepieces is actually very limited. Most telescope companies will commission a manufacturer to make a run of eyepieces for them using this or that optical design, with the only differences being external cosmetic ones, and occasionally variations in coatings. Because so many people are ignorant of how all of this works, they will say this eyepiece is a "copy" or worse still a "clone" of that eyepiece. They are the same bloody eyepiece...

Take the Baader Hyperion line. These are the exact same as the Saxon SWA, the Celestron DUO, the Orion Stratus, and a few others. Their differences are all only skin deep as optically they are all the same. Same goes for the majority of other eyepieces, plossls, kellners, wide angle, etc. It is extremely expensive to design unique EP optical designs. It is much cheaper to use an existing optical design and just change its colours. That's business.

Now there are some exceptions. Some manufacturers will make a line exclusively for some scope companies. TV's are made in China, but their designs are exclusive to them. Vixen with its high end designs the same. This also goes a long way to explaining the premium one pay for such eyepieces. There's not many firms that will do this.

Don't feel cheated though. It's actually a good opportunity though if you know your way around to pick up some real bargains!

Take the Vixen LVW line (again, the Baader Hyperion line is NOT a copy or clone of these). These were rebadged as the Orion Lanthanum Super Wides. This Orion line ran for just a couple of years and then discontinued. Same great optics, but much cheaper! Even second hand the Vixens command a better price. But if optical performance is more important to you, you now know where the bargain lies.

So now all of a sudden, the world of eyepieces had just shrunk!

Rather incestuous, but that's business. Every industry does the same, not just scopes.

Brand prejudice...

This is another gem provider! There are some firms that have a cult following, yet others may as well be lepers. Celestron is one of latter. They occasionally offer some outstanding EP lines, but because they carry the wrong name and colour, next to no one gives these eyepieces a chance. The discontinued Axiom LX line is one such example. Designed for a convex focal plane, these are really great performers, and some individual focal lengths also do really very well in Newts too. The Luminos line is NOT the same optical designs, despite the same focal lengths, and they do not perform the same way. Read a lot, and you will be able to find some real gems and bargains.

Alex.
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  #23  
Old 25-01-2019, 09:06 AM
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Off-topic:

Alex, you do need to combine all your posts into proper articles on this forum. Things like 'Understanding Nebulae' and 'Observing the Moon & Planets' deserve to be as articles with proper formatting.

On-topic:

I wish all these great second-hand EP were available on the market. On CN classified you can find gems from time to time, but quite often they are not sending overseas. Or even not accepting PayPal - money order or cheque only!!! Hey, it's 21st century now! So it will take quite a bit of time to find what you need here in Australia. Or might not find here at all.
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  #24  
Old 25-01-2019, 05:09 PM
SkyWatch (Dean)
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Hi Stephen,
Another option for planetary/high power viewing is the Orion Edge-on series (see, eg: https://www.bintel.com.au/product/or...v=6cc98ba2045f ). These are identical to the Long Perng ones (which are lots cheaper!), but they seem to be sold out at Andrews (although it might be worth giving them a ring: see http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm ). Williams also brand them, but at a higher price than Orion and Long Perng.
They have a 20mm eye-relief, which makes them a lot easier to look through that the supplied plossls, and I find them nice and sharp with a good FOV.
I have tried the 9mm, 6mm, and 3mm Long Perng versions in my f5 Newtonian as well as f6 and f8 refractors: and they are all fine in all the scopes.
If you do go down this road though, I think you will find that the 3mm wont get as much use as the 6mm, simply because the seeing wont allow you to go to that power anywhere near as often.
Good luck with your search!

- Dean
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  #25  
Old 25-01-2019, 09:15 PM
Ukastronomer (Jeremy)
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In the UK we have the Distance selling regulations (act) which allows us by law to return anything bought FREE postage within a few weeks for a refund, allowing things to be tried out, such as eyepieces, do you.

Also if like me you are loyal to a reputable seller, with me it is the Widescreen centre who have been around for 30 years, I can ask Simon to try before I buy, do you have shops like this

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk
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  #26  
Old 25-01-2019, 09:37 PM
Wavytone
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Ditch the compass.
Ditch the phone except as an atlas, which it’s good at
Forget about altitude, it’s irrelevant.

Use the method in the other thread I linked. Print it off if need be so you can read it in the dark.

Technology is a crutch which is dumbing most of you down. We didn’t have or need it, 30 years ago. Let go of it, look up and learn the basic visual skills.
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  #27  
Old 28-01-2019, 08:01 PM
Placesinthedark (Stephen)
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Thanks all, will be referring to this thread and saving some money for the future. Probably try and get into a star party, if any close by, and just try before I buy. Might pop into Astro Anarchy and have a chat next time I hit Brisvegas.
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