Apologies to Logan and others.

csb (Craig) · #1 11-04-2018, 03:18 PM

Sincere apologies if the "Asking for money" thread upset anyone.

I certainly realise I should have broached the issue in a less forthright manner to encourage a better discussion.

Houghy (mod) contacted me to state the thread has been moved while the mods discuss the issue. They may welcome other members opinions.

Craig

leon · #2 11-04-2018, 03:46 PM

Good on ya Craig, although the thread didn't upset me in anyway, it takes a good person to come forward though.

Leon

m11 (Mel) · #3 11-04-2018, 04:03 PM

Hi Craig,

Let me start off and say, I was not offended with the thread.

Commend you on supporting and helping nurture the next generation of amateur astronomers.

In reading the previous thread the delivery may have play a part in putting others offside.

I do understand that others have made a point that if it was a grown up asking, it would be different. Something that I assume people will debate and ponder on.

All the best.

strongmanmike (Michael) · #4 11-04-2018, 04:13 PM

I couldn't understand the problem in the first place..? Perhaps there are behind the scene agreements we are not privy too but IIS has whole ongoing threads detailing (aka openly advertising) commercial ventures including DSS and remote imaging businesses and nobody seems to mind those..? So why the problem with go fundme type threads

Mike

Allan_L (Allan) · #5 11-04-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csb

Sincere apologies if the "Asking for money" thread upset anyone.

I certainly realise I should have broached the issue in a less forthright manner to encourage a better discussion.

Houghy (mod) contacted me to state the thread has been moved while the mods discuss the issue. They may welcome other members opinions.

Craig

Hi Craig,
No I was not offended.
In fact I thought the same thing myself - when I first read the thread Title.
So I initially decided not to even open the thread.

When I finally got around to reading the thread, I thought, Oh, it's a youngster starting out asking for help! ...
Is that OK???
And then I didn't know what to think.
Certainly that changed my initial thought, but still there was a bit of a feeling of uncomfortableness of someone asking for money for a hobby.
(Happy to give money for Charitable causes, but this is something else.
Probably depends on your financial position to some extent.)

I say good on you for raising your concerns.
It is certainly something we don't want to see as a regular feature on IIS.

However, at the end of the day, its your decision as to whether you donate or not.
Or even if you read the thread or not.

But at least the thread Title was clear and concise in what it was about.
Something other regular posters could learn.
(eg Thread titles like "Read This..." or "You gotta see this")

But like you and most others here, I am overly keen to help newcomers.
Preloved equipment for next to nothing; Out of my way to help; etc..
So this was a little conflicting for me too.

But that's just me.
Thanks for opening the discussion at least.

MortonH · #6 11-04-2018, 06:01 PM

I think it's a little unusual because (a) this type of request for 'assistance' is usually made on behalf of someone else and (b) he has quite an impressive list of equipment in his signature, including a Tak.

At the end of the day though it's good to see someone so enthusiastic about the hobby so good on him for giving it a go. As long as we're not bombarded with this kind of thing all the time I don't have a problem with it.

Bart · #7 11-04-2018, 06:44 PM

I'm going in the other direction however; do not interpret this as an unwillingness to assist.

I'm not offended and if I was closer I might offer to help in some way although I do believe that this is not the forum for asking for money.

As others have said, there is a Tak in the signature and it would be different if it was an established adult member with cap in hand.

My grand father said that if you are going to help someone, help the in the smallest way as they will end up appreciating it the most.

Neither you or I have exactly the right answer.

csb (Craig) · #8 11-04-2018, 07:21 PM

Oops! I didn't intend for discussion to continue here.

My apology was actually due to the tone of my original post.

The mods are considering the issue. If you have something to say on the matter then pm a mod.

It is certainly a matter that needs consideration, just not in this thread

PeterM · #9 11-04-2018, 07:25 PM

Thanks for posting this Craig it shows your good character.

As you know I only had a problem with one word used and to your credit you gave it good consideration and changed it.

I was surprised to see the thread closed as I think it needs to be open for any discussion.

For me I have no issue using crowd funding, indeed a google search shows many professional astronomers using it. Hey they have some great equipment already??

https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.07393
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....wdfunding.html

Beats selling lamingtons on the weekend.

I see it no different to using new techno means to accelarate ones progress as this site has done i.e. using Facebook etc.

I'm all for assisting people of all ages, gender etc etc who can demonstrate they are serious about progressing the hobby of amateur astronomy.

I made the tongue in cheek comment that amateur astronomy in general and this site has an over abundance of "old farts" like me and we need new young talent if we want this hobby to continue and inspire and thrive.
Let's be honest, turn up at any Astro club meeting and I bet the average age tops 60...We will need people like Logan to show us how to get our gear to talk to the latest computers and apps, let alone help to carry it and set it up at Astro parties..

What equipment Logan already has is irrelevant..fact is he is making good use of it and he is showing he has talent and enthusiasm. Check out what he has already done...maybe a slight envy wishing we could turn the clock back.

He innocently and openly put all his cards on the table, being upfront in his initial post, didn't misrepresent himself or his gear. I admire his guts asking his community of largely well equipped old fellas like me for that accelarated bump in his development.

So im with him...thats why I sent him a ZWO camera and small donation.
If you don't agree or don't want to then don't.

Looking forward to seeing what Logan rewards us with by way of his images, discoveries and above all his enthusiasm in the hobby and where he goes in the future.

Over to you Mods.

LewisM · #10 11-04-2018, 07:58 PM

I know precisely what Logan paid for the Takahashi that is oft referenced here as a point of contention (oddly) - $1500 - so I would not call it the crown jewel many seem to attribute to it. Certainly a high end scope, but not a high-end price. The camera he wants to attach to it costs much more.

alocky (Andrew lockwood) · #11 11-04-2018, 08:50 PM

Like many here I suppose I initially thought back to when I was a snotty 12 year old using a 60mm refractor and wished I had a bigger scope, and figured if I had to pay my dues then why shouldn't Logan? Fortunately - back when I was a snotty 12 year old back in the early '80s, one Peter Marples took the time to pick me up from home and drive me (and my crappy little 60mm) to dark sky nights with the AAQ and later invited me along to the SAS nights. I remember guys like Jack Kelly and Gregg Thompson sharing their observing experience with me.
I'm absolutely humbled by the generosity Peter is still showing, as I know he's done this for two generations of amateur observers. And I'm equally sure Logan will go on to make a great contribution to the amateur scene.
cheers,
Andrew.

LewisM · #12 11-04-2018, 08:59 PM

I remember saving for 4 months for the 8" Dobsonian I eagerly wanted as an 16 year old. I even remember walking 8km to the camera shop selling it and walking it home in a "borrowed" shopping trolley...and then walking the empty trolley back again (yes, I was a responsible lad).

Not so easy for kids to get part time small jobs any more. I worked in a take-away Chinese shop...was paid below the award as I was kinda off the books

. It was still enough to pay for the scope in instalments - which was a FORTUNE back then! ($800 by memory!!!)

Logan is A-OK in my books, 'cept he won't sell me that Tak MT-160...I keep trying

Octane (Humayun) · #13 11-04-2018, 09:00 PM

Lies. We all know you sold the Dobsonian to someone else and then delivered it to them in the same shopping trolley you took it home in.

H

LewisM · #14 11-04-2018, 09:07 PM

After I broke it, but declared it was immaculate. Cracked the primary. I then gave the Dob base away as it was irreparable. It was worth at least $30,000

xelasnave · #15 12-04-2018, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

After I broke it, but declared it was immaculate. Cracked the primary. I then gave the Dob base away as it was irreparable. It was worth at least $30,000

What are you talking about Lewis?
Alex

xelasnave · #16 12-04-2018, 07:46 AM

Hi Craig
You are a good man.
I dont think you upset anyone and I hope I did not cause you to think such.
In any event you spoke of your feelings and there was no harm in that.
You have my respect for your post.
Alex

Shano592 (Shane) · #17 12-04-2018, 08:26 AM

I like that this site on the whole, allows for truly open discussion of these things. Even though I don't have an opinion on this particular topic, the fact that all opinions are free to be expressed is great.

I do like what PeterM, alocky and others have said in their respective posts. Some great points, and interesting personal perspectives.

For this hobby of ours to survive, we need the young guys and gals coming through to be enthusiastic, and to feel truly welcome. And it doesn't only have to be in the form of crowd funding.

At the PC over the last few years, a few teens and twenty-somethings have come through. I often wonder whether their interest was a fleeting thing, or whether they didn't like the company. I know guys like Allan_L, The Owl, Geoffro, Arthur Alchin and others have been really accommodating and free with hints, tips and advice... so I don't think that is the issue.

Well, I hope I am around when I read about Logan's great discoveries, on Internet 4.0.