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  #1  
Old 17-08-2017, 12:02 AM
Tropo-Bob (Bob)
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Veil Nebula

I viewed the Eastern and Western sides of this nebula tonight with a 10" Dob, using a 18mm Radian (66x) a 15mm Delite (80x) and a 11mm Nagler (109x).

The western half is easier to find as it contains a bright star (52 Cygnus) and the nebula appears of each side of the star for some length. I found 66x best to view the overall shape and 80x best to look at the nebula and see how it thickened and thinned along it length. It was quite a large, long, bowed (or curved) nebula continuing well past the full field of view. It is much more visible on one side of 52 Cygnus than the other. It become confusing at 109x, so this was of little use on the western half.

However, the eastern half seemed brighter and easier to see and curved in the opposite direction. 109x was useful on this side, but I found 80x to be more applicable. Without a bright star to centre on, this was the more difficult side to find.

I tried to follow around where I imagined that the circular shape of the supernova remnant should have been, but saw no more nebula. Looking at charts afterwards gives me the impression that I should have seen more, but missed it.

These observations were made about midnight and the nebula had just passed it maximum altitude for my location.
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  #2  
Old 17-08-2017, 06:32 PM
GUS.K
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Nice report Bob. I usually use an Olll filter, makes both the west and east parts easily visible and the central part is visible as well. I can make out a fair amount of detail in a UHC filter, but the Olll definitely brings out more detail. I usually use a 10 inch F6, but have seen it with a 100mm binocular telescope with filters.
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  #3  
Old 23-08-2017, 07:57 AM
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Tinderboxsky (Steve)
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Would love to observe the Veil Nebula but alas I am too far south and poorly positioned with Hobart about 20klm north. I keep reminding myself I have an endless list of wonderful objects in the dark far southern skies that high above and circumpolar.
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  #4  
Old 23-08-2017, 10:22 PM
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DeepSkyBagger (Patrick)
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I agree with GUS.K. All areas of the Veil stand out much better with an OIII filter. The object is nearly circumpolar for me (Deneb is circumpolar), getting up to 67 or so degrees on northern summer nights (like now).

I'd just like to say to Steve that I'd happily swap my circumpolar objects for his! The grass is always greener and all that...
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  #5  
Old 24-08-2017, 09:19 AM
Tropo-Bob (Bob)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepSkyBagger View Post
I agree with GUS.K. All areas of the Veil stand out much better with an OIII filter. The object is nearly circumpolar for me (Deneb is circumpolar), getting up to 67 or so degrees on northern summer nights (like now).

I'd just like to say to Steve that I'd happily swap my circumpolar objects for his! The grass is always greener and all that...
After playing 'Hide & Seek' for a few days, I have found my OIII filter, so clouds willing, I will try tonight. I brought the filter years ago and never liked it because it dims stars so badly, but will give it another go.

Does this filter also help with the North American Nebula?

Being only 17 degrees south of the equator, I have no circumpolar stars or objects of note, but do appreciate that the far-southern sky has more interesting objects than the far-northern sky.
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  #6  
Old 24-08-2017, 09:30 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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The Veil is a magnificent object even compared to the Southern marvels. Nothing quite like it. Any aperture will show some aspect of it. Spent some time looking at it from Germany (about 51°N) using an 80mm refractor and 12" dob last month while it was riding high. The frac showed Pickering's Triangle (the middle bit to the North) better than the dob. I recall seeing the Veil from suburban Dresden a few years ago with a UHC and 60mm refractor.

Steve, don't despair. I've been observing it every winter over the last few years from 45°S with surprisingly good results. You may even see it from home, but a dark N horizon will help, obviously. If TAS skies are anything like NZ's it's impossible to miss with an OIII installed.
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  #7  
Old 24-08-2017, 09:36 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropo-Bob View Post
After playing 'Hide & Seek' for a few days, I have found my OIII filter, so clouds willing, I will try tonight. I brought the filter years ago and never liked it because it dims stars so badly, but will give it another go.

Does this filter also help with the North American Nebula?

....
Definitely.
Also have you ever looked at the Carina neb through it? Worth doing.
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  #8  
Old 24-08-2017, 12:47 PM
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Well you have got me thinking I should try from home.
I’ll also put it on my list when next visiting the Astronomical Society of Tasmania’s observing site. It is north east of Hobart with a relatively good, dark northern outlook.
I have dark skies from the East, through South and around to the West and overhead. Ideal for all of the far southern gems. The low Hobart sky glow (direct lights shielded by low hills) only interferes when chasing fainter objects low in the North. Having said that I do give myself the challenge of at least one observation of the Andromeda Galaxy each November - it culminates at about 5 degrees directly above Hobart. I have managed a sighting each of the last 4 years since I started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N1 View Post
Steve, don't despair. I've been observing it every winter over the last few years from 45°S with surprisingly good results. You may even see it from home, but a dark N horizon will help, obviously. If TAS skies are anything like NZ's it's impossible to miss with an OIII installed.
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  #9  
Old 25-08-2017, 03:17 AM
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DeepSkyBagger (Patrick)
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I had a quick peek at the Veil last night. A very poor night, with 88% humidity making it like observing from the bottom of a swimming pool. The brightest, western section (around 52 Cyg) was easy with the OIII filter, but very difficult without. On a good night, I don't need the filter. The eastern curve was visible but dim with the filter and invisible without.

FWIW, I've never found the OIII filter to be of the least use when looking for the North America Nebula.
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  #10  
Old 25-08-2017, 10:29 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepSkyBagger View Post
FWIW, I've never found the OIII filter to be of the least use when looking for the North America Nebula.
It does help with light pollution. As does a UHC. No big difference between them TBH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinderboxsky View Post
Well you have got me thinking I should try from home.
I’ll also put it on my list when next visiting the Astronomical Society of Tasmania’s observing site. It is north east of Hobart with a relatively good, dark northern outlook.
I have dark skies from the East, through South and around to the West and overhead. Ideal for all of the far southern gems. The low Hobart sky glow (direct lights shielded by low hills) only interferes when chasing fainter objects low in the North. Having said that I do give myself the challenge of at least one observation of the Andromeda Galaxy each November - it culminates at about 5 degrees directly above Hobart. I have managed a sighting each of the last 4 years since I started.
It will definitely work from the observing site. The trick is to find it for the first time. It's pretty straight-forward after that. At culmination it sits directly above epsilon Cygni. You may want to bring a wide field capable instrument along with the bigger aperture one. Seeing the Veil is about 10° further south than M31, I'd hazard a guess that you will see the two main regions from home also. M31 is all but impossible from Dunedin. Have fun!

Last edited by N1; 25-08-2017 at 10:40 AM.
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  #11  
Old 25-08-2017, 09:28 PM
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[QUOTE=N1;1331231]It does help with light pollution. As does a UHC. No big difference between them TBH.

The OIII filter has a double transmission window at 496 and 501nm. It's only useful for high excitation objects such as supernova remnants and planetary nebulae. Nothing else shines brightly at these wavelengths. You simply can't use an OIII filter as a general light pollution filter - it's far too restrictive. Anything emitting continuum will simply be dimmed - quite massively. The NAN is not a high excitation object, so it doesn't glow strongly at these wavelengths - you'll be cutting out far more light than you're letting through.

A more effective filter for objects like the NAN is a H-beta filter, which has a transmission window at 486nm. Again, that only works for specific objects - those glowing brightly in H-beta, and would not be an effective LP filter.
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  #12  
Old 26-08-2017, 07:40 PM
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Been observing both sections of the Veil from our dark sky site with the Astro Physics 120mm doublet - quite the view! Must try it with an OIII filter, as until now had been looking unfiltered.
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  #13  
Old 28-08-2017, 11:48 AM
Tropo-Bob (Bob)
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I observed the Veil again last night with a 10" Dob.

It was difficult before the moon set and became a little easier afterward. I did not have a good a view as last time because there has been vegetation burn-offs to prevent bush fires and this has slightly affected visibility.

Using the OIII filter did not seem to assist me. I also used it on the Ring Nebula with and without filter, and prefered the view without the filter.

I will try again after the full Moon and may even take a trip to the countryside for darker skies.
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  #14  
Old 28-08-2017, 02:01 PM
N1 (Mirko)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepskybagger View Post
....you simply can't .....
ok.
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  #15  
Old 29-08-2017, 06:56 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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Bob, I think for the Veil you want good transparency. Smoke or haze will have a pretty devastating effect on its visibility. Re OIII - this target in a crowded part of the sky so the filter makes it easier to see by sufficiently dimming its Milky Way neighbourhood. The filter obviously won't brighten it, so if it's dimmed too much to begin with, it wont make much of a difference.

M57 does look better sans filter for its context, the filter will just make it a little easier to find/identify.
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2017, 08:56 AM
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Weltevreden SA (Dana)
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J-P Metsaivainio's Cygnus Loop video animations

A Finnish man named J-P Metsaivainio creates marvelous 4-D videos of certain well-known objects. He has at least two related to the Cygnus Loop. The first is a zoom-out/rotation/zoom-in some 37 seconds long.

The second is a 4-D rotation which shows the shell-like structure of the Loop better than 2-D flat-fields. Put it on full screen for that effect.

He also has a number of hi-rez stills of the Loop that are as good as observatory images one sees. The colour-intense versions are W O W.

Cheers,
=Dana in S Africa
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2017, 09:25 AM
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I observed the Veil Nebula on July 1 at my dark site on July 1 with an 8" dob. I have to say I was impressed. It has this certain delicate quality that I haven't seen in other nebulae. The OIII really enhances the view.

8" F/6, 22mm EP 54x: With the OIII, the western section (6960) curves gently S of 52 Cygni, broadening into 2-3 channels. The N section was a reasonably bright delicate wisp. The eastern section (6992, 6995) was particularly impressive, textured, wispy, branching with knots. The broader southern end (IC1340) was like a crab claw with fainter plumes extending off it. The Pickering's Triangle was faintly visible.
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