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  #21  
Old 21-05-2011, 05:08 PM
TrevorW
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Yes I agree, the ABC reporter should be sent to a witch doctor and have her entrails read!

I bet she is a Sagittarian [/QUOTE]

Now thems fighting words, what's wrong with Sagittarians
  #22  
Old 21-05-2011, 07:04 PM
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They're... Sagittarians...

H
  #23  
Old 21-05-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
They're... Sagittarians...

H
Jealousy is a curse

I quote

"According to astologers Sagittarian men are some of the smartest,wittiest, good looking, athletic and all round charmers you are likely to meet"

now how could they be wrong
  #24  
Old 21-05-2011, 08:47 PM
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by TrevorW View Post
Jealousy is a curse

I quote

"According to astologers Sagittarian men are some of the smartest,wittiest, good looking, athletic and all round charmers you are likely to meet"

now how could they be wrong
Now now Trevor... are you CERTAIN you are a Sagittarius?

You better double check
  #25  
Old 21-05-2011, 08:48 PM
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I've come to accept that journalism nowdays is merely a product of capitalism that caters directly to a market, in the case of the original article, the millions(?) of astrologers that Australia has. You open up a newspaper, it has an astrology section, you open almost any womens mag, it has an astrology section. The same thing is happening to mainstream media as well, with FOX being a perfect example of biased media catering to a specific market - the right wing.
  #26  
Old 22-05-2011, 11:52 AM
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overlord (Chucky)
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LOL. Someone on this thread said I don't understand science. Funny that, since not only AM I a scientist with degree from the University of Melbourne, but I have also undertaken extensive research in the history and philosophy of science, so I am aware of certain of the ins and outs. I am also in my eleventh full time year of university and am wrapping up a Phd, which is actually my third university degree.

But that's right, most people are sycophants and suck-ups to the people on television who grow beards (yes they do), in order to get research grants since that makes them look like mystical elders. They assume they are right because they see themselves as low in the hierarchy and unqualified to discuss 'sacred physics' which becomes religious for them. Thus Hawking and other nutters who believe in such fraudulent ideas as 'dark matter' are called upon to explain the origins of the universe.... as if they knew, and millions of parrots actually believe them. BELIEF without REASON is not science. Science has always been about asking questions and analysis. Nothing these cosmologists do is in anyway falsifiable, and is therfore highly theoretical and unscientific. On the other hand, astrology developed empirically.

P.S.

I forgot to say that it's hard to understand that article without knowledge of this. Many of the Ptolemaic aspects were improved by Johannes Kepler, an excellent scientist who developed orbital laws, and noticed that certain aspects could be bisected with resultant weather changes on earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect

We currently experienced some very hard aspects which shut down solar activity with the result of primary agriculturist commodities tripping in value in the late 2000s.
  #27  
Old 22-05-2011, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OICURMT View Post
Now now Trevor... are you CERTAIN you are a Sagittarius?

You better double check
your calendars wrong

Sagittarius, the ninth zodiac sign, is the most independent of all. Those, who are born between November 22 and December 21, are Sagittarius. Sagittarians are brave, who can go to any extent to meet their goals. They are very strong and always wear a positive attitude towards life. This is the reason that most of the Sagittarians are successful in life. They are great initiator and pathfinder. They know how to live a happy and contented life and they do the needful for it. You must notice them laughing very often.
  #28  
Old 22-05-2011, 12:20 PM
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Here ya go guys! The planets pull the sun around!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:So...barycenter.svg

This is NOT pseudoscience. It is a very real effect!
  #29  
Old 22-05-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal View Post
I've come to accept that journalism nowdays is merely a product of capitalism that caters directly to a market, in the case of the original article, the millions(?) of astrologers that Australia has. You open up a newspaper, it has an astrology section, you open almost any womens mag, it has an astrology section. The same thing is happening to mainstream media as well, with FOX being a perfect example of biased media catering to a specific market - the right wing.
+1 Andrew

Indifferent to both sides in this debate - can't get worked up as an 'astronomer' at a fluff piece of journalism, and can see the journo's point for tie-ing the alignment and astrology together to create said 'Fluff' (shame she dragged poor old Fred Watson along with it though!)...don't care - move on.

What I did find irksome, and which ties in with the OPs original point, was a member of the US 'media' berating another country's media for poor quality journalism! A case of physician heal thyself I think!!

Andrew's 'Fox' example is a frightening illustration of this.
  #30  
Old 22-05-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by overlord View Post
LOL. Someone on this thread said I don't understand science. Funny that, since not only AM I a scientist with degree from the University of Melbourne, but I have also undertaken extensive research in the history and philosophy of science, so I am aware of certain of the ins and outs. I am also in my eleventh full time year of university and am wrapping up a Phd, which is actually my third university degree.

But that's right, most people are sycophants and suck-ups to the people on television who grow beards (yes they do), in order to get research grants since that makes them look like mystical elders. They assume they are right because they see themselves as low in the hierarchy and unqualified to discuss 'sacred physics' which becomes religious for them. Thus Hawking and other nutters who believe in such fraudulent ideas as 'dark matter' are called upon to explain the origins of the universe.... as if they knew, and millions of parrots actually believe them. BELIEF without REASON is not science. Science has always been about asking questions and analysis. Nothing these cosmologists do is in anyway falsifiable, and is therfore highly theoretical and unscientific. On the other hand, astrology developed empirically.

P.S.

I forgot to say that it's hard to understand that article without knowledge of this. Many of the Ptolemaic aspects were improved by Johannes Kepler, an excellent scientist who developed orbital laws, and noticed that certain aspects could be bisected with resultant weather changes on earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect

We currently experienced some very hard aspects which shut down solar activity with the result of primary agriculturist commodities tripping in value in the late 2000s.
Just because you have a degree or two, and are working towards a PhD doesn't mean you understand what science is about. You've obviously abandoned all of your critical faculties to pursue a hobby horse which from what I can tell you've held even before your academic career. So, you're trying to "use" science in order to prove your preconceived notions. That's not how science works, despite what your delusions about it might tell you. As so far as Hawking et.al. are concerned, their ideas wouldn't have been accepted as workable theories if they weren't able to be falsified. The simple fact that they are theories means they've passed various tests of falsifiability and have been accepted...so how can they be "unscientific". If you actually knew anything about how science works, as you claim to, you would know that a hypothesis is what the preliminary step in the falsification of any scientific idea is. That's where it maybe unscientific or not....a theory is an accepted premise, no matter how controversial it is. It is also a tested premise and so has been falsified to the best of the ability of science at the time. However, what is unscientific is the nonsense you're trying to peddle in these posts. I don't need to list the number of studies which have been carried out on this subject to be able to say, in all confidence, that what you're trying to justify is nothing more than snake oil. I've encountered a few people such as yourself in my time that try and use science to prove wholly unsupported and discredited nonsense, thinking that because they've managed to get through university and obtained a degree or two, that somehow makes them qualified to rewrite science in their own image, so to speak. I suggest that if you want to go write science fiction, then go do so. Leave the real science up to those that actually know what they're doing and have taken the time to understand what it's on about.
  #31  
Old 22-05-2011, 01:06 PM
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+1 Andrew

Indifferent to both sides in this debate - can't get worked up as an 'astronomer' at a fluff piece of journalism, and can see the journo's point for tie-ing the alignment and astrology together to create said 'Fluff' (shame she dragged poor old Fred Watson along with it though!)...don't care - move on.

What I did find irksome, and which ties in with the OPs original point, was a member of the US 'media' berating another country's media for poor quality journalism! A case of physician heal thyself I think!!

Andrew's 'Fox' example is a frightening illustration of this.
Well said, Doug. As far as the American media is concerned it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The news networks, especially in the US, are not about critically informing the public in an unbiased manner. They're nothing more than trash entertainment organisations that cater to the lowest common denominator when it comes to anything intelligent or factual reporting. But, that seems to be what the general populace wants, so they get what they deserve. Rubbish, lies and fantasy.
  #32  
Old 22-05-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorW View Post
Jealousy is a curse

I quote

"According to astologers Sagittarian men are some of the smartest,wittiest, good looking, athletic and all round charmers you are likely to meet"

now how could they be wrong
Yes, but did that quote come from a "professional astrologer" or just an amateur..

BEST. THREAD. EVER
  #33  
Old 22-05-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord View Post
Here ya go guys! The planets pull the sun around!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:So...barycenter.svg

This is NOT pseudoscience. It is a very real effect!
Umm.... I don't understand what your point is... No one here would even dispute this fact, as this is one of the primary methods used to detect exoplanets (doppler effect from planetary pull on the primary star).
  #34  
Old 22-05-2011, 01:27 PM
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Umm.... I don't understand what your point is... No one here would even dispute this fact, as this is one of the primary methods used to detect exoplanets (doppler effect from planetary pull on the primary star).
He's trying to prove the validity of astrology.
  #35  
Old 22-05-2011, 02:09 PM
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Now now Trevor... are you CERTAIN you are a Sagittarius?

You better double check
What epoch are those dates? At a quick look, they are about 2 days early.
  #36  
Old 22-05-2011, 02:58 PM
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Question

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What epoch are those dates? At a quick look, they are about 2 days early.
Keeping line with another thread, it's based on U.S. time...

Honestly, don't remember where I got those dates (I used the information back in the early 90's... I may have updated them, but apparently not if you think they are a couple of days out... Time to Google!)


OIC!
  #37  
Old 22-05-2011, 03:00 PM
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Talking

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Keeping line with another thread, it's based on U.S. time...


OIC!
Isn't everything??
  #38  
Old 22-05-2011, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord View Post
Funny that, since not only AM I a scientist with degree from the University of Melbourne, but I have also undertaken extensive research in the history and philosophy of science, so I am aware of certain of the ins and outs.
You did a science degree and studied philosophy of science without coming away with any understanding about scientific method and the birth and growth of astrology as pseudo-science in its historical context. That could only be an indictment of modern universities.
  #39  
Old 22-05-2011, 03:50 PM
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Good onya Dave!

Hi All,

Without entering the fray on all the peripheral comments on this thread, I agree with Dave Eicher's blog comments wholeheartedly. I don't think it really has anything to do with bashing Australians, but highlighting a badly written story that prima-facie, elevates astrology to a similar level as astronomy as a science. Indeed I made almost the same comments on this ABC story elsewhere.

But to explain, without excusing what we see as the ABC writer's poor item, she probably sought comment from astrologers on the basis that it "balances" the story. Young journalists have been taught for a long, long time that where there might be two angles on a story, that they should put both sides of the story and allow the reader to make up their minds. Rightly or wrongly, this I think is mostly what the writer has attempted here -- with the exception of the "astrologist" clunker

I and most people who are members here will be unhappy that both the beauty and the science here has been obnubilated by the addition of the astrology material because we see it as our duty to promote astronomy as a science and to debunk junk pseudo-science (yes I know that's a tautology).

This is why we (and David Eicher) are (rightly) annoyed by the astrology material in an article that primarily concerns science and specacle. But, the journalist has little or no interest in that as an agenda. She is more interested in "balancing" the story because that is what she was almost certainly taught to do -- particularly when she has little or no real grasp of the branch of knowledge.

Was I happy with how my "8c a day" was spent here? No!


Best,

Les D
  #40  
Old 22-05-2011, 07:20 PM
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On the question of "balance". it might be reasonable on a matter that was, say, a dispute between Government and Opposition, to hear equally from both sides, given both sides hold approximately equal support. But in many scientific arguments, the "balance" of views is 10,000 one way and 1 the other way - should those views then get equal time?
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