help deciding

creeksky (Pete) · #1 01-01-2015, 03:44 PM

After the disaster with the Aldi nat geo scope
I am heading toward what inertia8 has a "skywatcher heritage p130"
I"d love a Dobsonian 8" but a little beyond my budget $475 new and a 420k round trip to Brisbane along a potholed road then 12 ks of dirt road to my bush farm.(delivery cost works out more than petrol)
Any second hand 8"Dobs are in the $390+ range, though says it comes with $400 extras, but again a 550k drive west of Brisbane and I wouldnt know if its ok or not?

The SW heritage I can get brand new for near $245 delivered.
Also wondering if I should keep the aldi scope for its fittings 4mm and 2 x barlow plus moon filter to use with the heritage p130 (as extra lenses alone would be more than $50.
Any help appreciated.

inertia8 (Australia) · #2 01-01-2015, 06:22 PM

Pete, there's currently a gso 8" dob for sale in the forums, $325 in qld.

acropolite (Phil) · #3 01-01-2015, 07:30 PM

After reading a few reviews on the SW Heritage 130, I think for the money it would be hard to beat.

inertia8 (Australia) · #4 01-01-2015, 08:39 PM

^ I'm very happy with mine, but it's my first scope so I've nothing to compare it to except 8 x 42 binoculars.

The view at high magnification is extremely shaky for me, I am expecting that once I sort out a stable mount and seat I should overcome most of the issues.

However, I do understand that it's stability will be nothing like a heavy dob etc.

creeksky (Pete) · #5 01-01-2015, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inertia8

^ I'm very happy with mine, but it's my first scope so I've nothing to compare it to except 8 x 42 binoculars.

The view at high magnification is extremely shaky for me, I am expecting that once I sort out a stable mount and seat I should overcome most of the issues.

However, I do understand that it's stability will be nothing like a heavy dob etc.

I had stability probs with the table and Aldi scope with a wooden table, and that was on a all concrete yard(at mums)at home its grass, small rocks, cow dung and brown snakes!
Plus inquisitve wallabies, possums and bandicoots.
At least in a chair I could sit cross legged buddha style.
With a tall 8 inch Dob I think I would have to stand? I'm 5'6.
I have only ever had (the Aldi scope) and a 1972 Tasco 40mm? Refractor.
Id love to be able to see jupiters bands and saturns rings better than the Tasco did and some DSOs would be good.Maybe even Andromeda,
Mars too with discernable polar bits.
I do have 300mtr high hills north and south either side-Im in a valley, so some objects will be hidden.
But there are no street, house lights for 25 ks!

Marios (Marios) · #6 01-01-2015, 09:20 PM

How about a 6" DOB a little more aperture than the 130 but over double the focal length for superior magnification. They usually go for about 300 -3 50 new or 200 second hand on ebay...

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #7 01-01-2015, 09:23 PM

Pete
My advice for what it is worth, is to get an 8" dob. Nothing wrong with the 130 SW Heritage, but I have owned or used scopes of 130mm, 8" (2 of these to date!), 12" and 20" and looked through a lot of dobs of various sizes and personally the 8" dob is the best value for money out there.
The little 130mm dobs are OK, but it would have to go on a table, while an 8" can just sit on the ground. An adjustable height chair is helpful if you are my height (5'9") but a bit shorter is easier still.
You also get much more light gathering. I could not believe the difference when I went up to the 8" from my old 130mm!
If you can, try to save the extra $$$, it will be worth it!!

Malcolm

Hoges (John) · #8 01-01-2015, 10:56 PM

The 8" dob in the IIS classifieds (I think you've pm'd the owner) would be ideal and cover all your bases. Excellent bang for the buck at $325. I went from a little table top red 4" Tasco to a 8" reflector as my first 'proper' scope and the difference was jaw dropping.

inertia8 (Australia) · #9 01-01-2015, 11:18 PM

I would concur with the 8" dob if you can save up for one.

For sitting, you can build a chair on the cheap called the denver chair or similar.
http://www.budgetastronomer.ca/index...bserving-chair

Just been out using the SW Heritage 130 and I will really need to sort out the stability issue and a seating arrangement. I'm currently having to bend over a bit too much because the table is a little low but not so low as to allow me to sit down. Still, happy with my purchase but it's something you should consider.

Also consider that you will want to add to the eyepieces of any telescope you end up purchasing. The ones with the Aldi dob won't cut it I'm afraid but the best advise is to use the ones you get with the scope and see what objects take your fancy, this will help decide on which eyepieces to go for.

Good luck.

creeksky (Pete) · #10 01-01-2015, 11:39 PM

Thanks for all the great advice, I like the SW heritage being compact, but moving the table and the aldi one around was a pain, and I only have camping portable tables at home which wobble.Yes I have PMed the owner in clasifieds here ,but an 8 hour drive return trip.800ks so factoring + petrol to cost s and it being s/h.
I also as yet dont understand colimination but as I kept thinking with the aldi scope"I need a light bucket"! A larger dob will be great with no light polution!

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #11 01-01-2015, 11:46 PM

I drove from Colac to Canberra and back a couple of years ago to buys a scope, I think about 1800kms round trip!!
Also don't get super hung up on collimation. Once you have done it a couple of times it is easy and makes more sense.

Cheers

Malcolm

creeksky (Pete) · #12 02-01-2015, 09:54 PM

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/guides/sw252.asp

Is this really what a 10" Dob can see?
Will an 8" be similar only slighly smaller?
With all those details and colour?

Hoges (John) · #13 02-01-2015, 10:07 PM

Visually,

No,
Yes,
No.

What the camera can record and what the eye sees are quite different - depending on the object. You will see the dust lane in Centaurus A through both scopes, but not quite that well. I don't think I've seen color visually in a scope in nebulas either - some report seeing a little color in, say, M42, but I haven't in either 8 or 10" newts or Schmidt Cass. I've owned or used both 8" and 10" scopes at one time or another and haven't noticed a large difference between them - but I've never put them side by side to test the difference either.

But visually, I've never seen Centaurus A look quite as good as that photo!

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #14 02-01-2015, 10:14 PM

No!!
These are images, usually taken with long exposures. As your eye cannot do long exposures, visual use is very different, much fainter and almost always monochrome as there is not enough light to activate the colour receptors in your eyes.
Have a look at some of Alex's and others sketches in the sketching thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=73111) to get a bit of an idea of what visual astronomy looks like.

Malcolm

creeksky (Pete) · #15 02-01-2015, 11:08 PM

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/behind...x1963;1144733]
No!!
These are images, usually taken with long exposures. As your eye cannot do long exposures, visual use is very different, much fainter and almost always monochrome as there is not enough light to activate the colour receptors in your eyes.
Have a look at some of Alex's and others sketches in the sketching thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=73111) to get a bit of an idea of what visual astronomy looks like.

Malcolm[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I think...feel a bit let down now, even just read the Hubble can't see colours!
The whole universe is just black and white? Mars only became red in 1977 and Jupiters red spot is maybe not red?
Another great let down....

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #16 02-01-2015, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeksky

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/behind...x1963;1144733]
No!!
These are images, usually taken with long exposures. As your eye cannot do long exposures, visual use is very different, much fainter and almost always monochrome as there is not enough light to activate the colour receptors in your eyes.
Have a look at some of Alex's and others sketches in the sketching thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=73111) to get a bit of an idea of what visual astronomy looks like.

Malcolm

Thanks, I think...feel a bit let down now, even just read the Hubble can't see colours!
The whole universe is just black and white? Mars only became red in 1977 and Jupiters red spot is maybe not red?
Another great let down....

[/QUOTE]

Pete
The Hubble Space Telescope uses monochrome cameras, but they use filters to collect certain wavelengths of light and then combine these to create the colour images. In fact that is what is done many of the images that were on the page you linked to. Many amateur images are done with monochrome (eg non colour) cameras but using filters and then recombining in software.

And the universe is definitely not black and white, it is just that even in big scopes our eyes are not good enough to see it.
Mars has always been red, it's red led to it being named Ares by the ancient Greeks after their god of war, Mars is the roman equivalent. And the Red Spot is not strongly red through a scope but clearly red in images.

Don't let this discourage you, many stars display strong colours and often planetary nebs have a strong colour.

Malcolm

Hoges (John) · #17 03-01-2015, 09:09 AM

Yep, double stars with contrasting colors are some of my favorite targets through the scope - they can be visually very stunning. The Jewel Box cluster is a very pretty sight. Also, I find globular clusters just as stunning through an 8 - 10" scope (Omega Centaurus and Tuc 47) as their photographs can be. Same with planets on a good night.

And while most galaxies are pale smudges through my scopes, just being able to see stuff millions of light years away and knowing what you're looking at is very satisfying.

creeksky (Pete) · #18 03-01-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoges

Yep, double stars with contrasting colors are some of my favorite targets through the scope - they can be visually very stunning. The Jewel Box cluster is a very pretty sight. Also, I find globular clusters just as stunning through an 8 - 10" scope (Omega Centaurus and Tuc 47) as their photographs can be. Same with planets on a good night.

And while most galaxies are pale smudges through my scopes, just being able to see stuff millions of light years away and knowing what you're looking at is very satisfying.

Feeling pretty shattered.
At home on a clear night I could swear with naked eye I can see some coloured stars orange, yellow, blue and maybe green too? But perhaps this is a trick of light like a rainbow.

There are also appears to be jagged swathes of pure black(no visible even faint stars) between what seems to be the spiral arms of our galaxy?
The night sky explodes with millions more stars than I ever saw growing up in a city!
Lying back on a reclining chair looking up it appears a like a huge star studded massive dome!
While I didn't expect a telescope to show hubble size coloured nebulae, I kinda hoped mini versions, and differing star colours, Mars to be red or a dark orange with whitish polar caps, Jupiter with bands of some colour maybe a faint red spot, neptune a blue dot and maybe with luck Andromeda with a flash of yellow at its core?

I understand now how limited our eyes are and I do understand how mind boggling far away the stars and DSOs are.
But they are all going to be like the monochrome moon? Faint hardly dicernable "fuzzies"
Or will with a faily decent scope my brain "imagine"and create colours?
Or atmophereic spectral refractions make them turn coloured or not at all?
I remember as a kid the wonder and joy of seeing jupiter a large pea sized round white ball and saturn white too with ears, at least (even with a toy Tasco refractor) seeing them with my own eyes was fantastic!
But even back in the 70s in Sydneys western burbs, light polution was bad.
Not until my first trip to Macksville in 1979 did I see the true night sky-just Wow!
Now I have it most every clear and moonless nights.
Just thought a scope would rekindle that "wonder".
-with colour and a bit more detail...

Hoges (John) · #19 03-01-2015, 10:40 AM

Fear not!! Lots of color to be seen in the brighter objects like stars and planets. Jupiter and Saturn are always 'wow' in a scope on a good night and I get far more of a thrill looking at them through a scope than seeing them on a picture. On a really good night, when Mars is close, you can sometimes see the polar cap. And yes, Mars is definitely orange/red! Even Uranus has a greenish tint to it's tiny disk. The stars, even to the naked eye, definitely reveal their colors too.

Nebulas, galaxies and similar things with low surface brightness, I'm afraid will be mostly black and white - regardless of scope. Unless you get into a bit of astrophotography......

madwayne (Wayne) · #20 03-01-2015, 11:48 AM

Hi Pete

How far away is your nearest astronomy club or society? Before you spend your hard earned I suggest a visit to a club and talk to the members and look through their equipment. I couldn't think of a single one of us who wouldn't welcome anyone with an interest to look through their equipment.

If it's a bit of a hike could you visit family or friends while you are there to make the trip worth your effort and expense?

It's not about the colour, I'll image if I want colour. It's about being out under the skies and seeing what detail you can see.

If however you want colour, try observing carbon stars. In my opinion some of the prettiest things you will see in a telescope. My favourite so far is one near Mimosa in Crux, very deep red.

Hope my two bobs worth is of help to you and good luck on your journey.

Wayne