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  #1  
Old 30-05-2016, 08:43 PM
Sconesbie (Scott)
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Dob and collimation

Hi all.

I have 10" collapsible dob.

Tonight (northern Tas) was clear sky but slightly dewy.

When I tried to focus, I could sharpen my eyepiece but kept getting "staring" for the want of a better term. It was like beams of light coming off everything I was looking at. Quite frustrating really. Also, I could see rainbow colours when trying to focus on Mars and Jupiter.

Does this mean collimation is out?

I was using my 2 X Barlow at times. What are ideal eyepieces to use?

Another thing I had was that my eyes couldn't focus too long in the eyepiece when searching for stuff. Maybe too much outside light around me? I am in my back yard. No streetlights but do have lights from next door.

I hope this all makes sense. I can clarify if need be.
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Old 30-05-2016, 09:51 PM
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grimsay (Iain)
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Hey Scott,

I can't comment on the visual issues / collimation as I'm just learning myself, although I did have some similar visual issues prior to collimating my 8" for the first time recently.

I can recommend making light blocking panels for those pesky neighbors lights though. I made a set of 3 of these. They help with my backyard LP heaps and are very versatile.

Cheers, Iain
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  #3  
Old 31-05-2016, 09:57 AM
geolindon (Lindon)
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G day Scott,
re beams of light; i have similar issues in dewy tropical Qld especially on bright objects. Mars was particularly frustrating me until i got a period of ?dry air ?good seeing and WOW.

i'll watch to see what the more experienced IISers here contribute; but assuming reasonable collimation and reasonably clean glass i think my issues and maybe your's are:-
mostly due to humid air/dew points,
warm breath on the colder ep lense (i imagine a bigger prob in Tas),
film on ep espec after outreach nights,
secondary mirror fogging/dewing,
and i have had the primary fog over also.

i have found clearing them with a 12v hairdryer is a very temporary result and will be getting some dew heater straps. warming the eps in front of the stove works and alternating eps through my pockets also helps. I read a while back of IISers having a red light and or heater strap in the ep case for this purpose.
regards, L
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Old 31-05-2016, 01:52 PM
Sconesbie (Scott)
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Thanks Lindon.

The things you mentioned happened (Dew, humidity, fog etc). Bugger, doesn't sound like there is much I can do in the interim.

Mars was very bright last night and this is where I was getting the beams of light coming through the eyepiece. It's a real shame. I'll keep persevering though.

I'll try the old eyepiece in the pocket trick. I know it sounds really basic but I keep mine on a rack on the scope so that is possible an issue. At least in my pocket they are out of the cold air (easier to get to as well).

As far as focusing with my eyes, I'd think maybe brightness from lights next door?
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Old 31-05-2016, 04:15 PM
geolindon (Lindon)
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Scott,
yeah, i dunno about your eye-focus-issues. if it was the first time you experienced dew probs., maybe it was a bit cold for your eyes also??
i wear contact lenses and sometimes i get improvement if i remove them, i guess because they have been in all day and may not be the cleanest by star time.

unless next door's lights are extreme or your eyes extremely susceptible i doubt it would greatly affect you on bright objects. personally i don't fuss if there is some light when viewing the bright planets, often Luna is up any way.
if the light gets into the 'scope's light path it could give you more "rays" or just a background glow. different story with 'faint fuzzies' of course.

i hope it'll be awlright tonight n nice n clear!
L
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  #6  
Old 31-05-2016, 07:34 PM
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janoskiss (Steve H)
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Hard to say what the issue might be. Barlow, EP, scope collimation or conditions? Collimation is something you need to learn how to do and get confident about. It's not hard but can be confusing at first. Follow good instructions, e.g., as described in Orion branded Dob user manuals (see www.telescope.com) or look up Sky and Telescope's 'how to collimate a Newtonian' article. Simple Cheshire style visual collimating tool is the most reliable. Note that in collimating a Newtonian only the final step (adjusting the tilt of the primary) is critical. The rest (centring and orienting the secondary) are fairly forgiving and need to be done only once a year or less often. When you read collimation instructions they can seem daunting but once you learn it's quick and easy.

But what you're describing does not sound like a collimation problem: that would only lead to not being able to focus, and usually asymmetry in the best focussed or slightly defocussed images. It's easier to see this when looking at stars.

The rainbow colours you describe sound like atmospheric refraction when the subject is low in the sky. But if you're getting it on both Mars and Jup, assuming you're observing them at around the same time, that's unlikely.

So perhaps it's your EP and/or barlow. What are you using? And what make is your scope?

Re what's best for your scope on planets (assuming it's an f/4.7-5), as far as magnification goes, aim for ~150x as a first look-see (and on poor-seeing nights that may be the best you can do), ~200x on average nights, ~250x on good nights, ~300 on excellent nights, and up to ~400x higher on rare exceptional nights. It's hard to recommend specific EPs without knowing your budget and observing habits.

Most fully multi-coated Plossls and barlows will do a decent job and tend to be the best performers on the cheap. Longer barlows tend to perform better than "shorties" - especially per dollar and in fast scopes like yours. At ~10mm and under the eye relief of Plossls gets a bit too close for comfort for most people so it's probably best to use your barlow for ~120x and over. You can increase the magnification of any barlow with a barrel extension tube.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:37 AM
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RAJAH235
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MMmm....
A collapsible DOB?
Do you have a shroud over the truss tubes?
Might just be stray light from your neighbour hitting the Primary/2ndary.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2016, 08:02 AM
Sconesbie (Scott)
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No shroud. I will be making one though.

Last night was much better viewing. Dew still a problem however.

Going well for an hour or so and all of a sudden, I couldn't see anything through the eyepiece and was wondering why. Change eyepiece, check cloud cover, nope. A quick look at the small mirror and found it was fogged up. Time to pack up. Bugger it.

I was getting some really good views of Saturn and Jupiter too. I found a way to reduce some glare and brightness using a moon filter. Seemed to work ok.

Anyway, I'll get back out tonight and have another go. Maybe I'll invest in a small battery powered hairdryer.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:28 PM
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MichaelSW (Michael)
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Scott,

G'day.

An IIS Thread about DIY shrouds may be useful to you.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ghlight=shroud
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2016, 01:32 PM
AEAJR (Ed)
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Collimation is easy. This video is made by Orion but all Newtonian scopes are collimated in a similar fashion. I use the collimation cap included with may Orion XT8i which is similar to the scope they use in the video. Your do will be done in a similar manner.

How to Collimate an Orion Dob using a Collimation cap or laser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVGcGEBmCE

Stray light with a collapsable dob is going to be a problem. I would expect the shroud will help.

Form my solid tube dob I have a flexible dew shield at the end which helps with dew and with stray light.


As for the cross effect or shooting rays, I get that too. I think you will find this can be caused by the lack of transparency in the atmosphere. High humidity, light pollution and the like will cause this as the particles in the atmosphere scatter the light from the bright planets. You probably notice it less on stars but if the atmosphere is not truly clear you will probably still get some of this.
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  #11  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:50 AM
Sconesbie (Scott)
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Thank you all for the advice and help.

I managed to head out to the Tamar Valley Astronomy group night on Saturday night and met some very nice people. It wasn’t a great night sky wise as was very cloudy due to coming rain. That said, Michael had a look and collimated it for me. It wasn’t out too much at all.

It looked very easy and something I can do quite simply. I have seen a few videos and comments on this forum but until I actually saw it for real, now understand how easy it is. I just need to buy a collimator.

Last week I did manage to reduce some glare by using a moon filter on the brighter objects.

This week isn’t shaping up to be too good in the sky which is frustrating but can’t be helped.

Again, thank you to all who offered some advice and help.


Regards
Scott
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2016, 01:45 PM
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janoskiss (Steve H)
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I would once again emphasise that while basic lasers collimators make it easy, they themselves still need regular checking and collimating. (They are very sensitive to the precise orientation of the beam.) There are more expensive laser based systems that overcome this hurdle but they're more expensive (few $100 up) and at about the same level of difficulty as a Cheshire.
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2016, 04:41 AM
AEAJR (Ed)
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I don't use a laser collimator, I use a collimation cap. But I understand a quick check on a laser is to rotate the laser in the focuser. The dot should not waver. If it moves around the laser itself is out of collimation.

That is what I have read. I am not an anuthority on this.
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2016, 08:45 AM
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Atmos (Colin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
I don't use a laser collimator, I use a collimation cap. But I understand a quick check on a laser is to rotate the laser in the focuser. The dot should not waver. If it moves around the laser itself is out of collimation.

That is what I have read. I am not an anuthority on this.
You are right, my first collimator did that (Orion something about $85). At the time I assumed it was just it rotating within the focuser, never even considered the collimator to the out of collimation! Now I have a Glatter and don't look back.
For a while I was using the Collimation Cap but my eye sight makes it very difficult, while it isn't terrible I cannot do it without my glasses which are terribly intrusive
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