Another reason to avoid facebook

[doppler (Rick)]

We all know Facebook and google collect peoples data and sell it but I think this is going a bit too far.

"The data was collected through an app called thisisyourdigitallife, built by academic Aleksandr Kogan, separately from his work at Cambridge University. Through his company Global Science Research (GSR), in collaboration with Cambridge Analytica, hundreds of thousands ofusers were paid to take a personality test and agreed to have their data collected for academic use. However, the app also collected the information of the test-takers’ Facebook friends, leading to the accumulation of a data pool tens of millions-strong".

" Cambridge Analytica spent nearly $1m on data collection, which yielded more than 50 million individual profiles that could be matched to electoral rolls. It then used the test results and Facebook data to build an algorithm that could analyse individual Facebook profiles and determine personality traits linked to voting behaviour. The algorithm and database together made a powerful politiacl tool. It allowed a campaign to identify possible swing voters and craft messages more likely to resonate."


https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...ce-us-election

[AndrewJ]

Gday Rick
Its not only farcebook.
The lure of things like tap'n'go means that all of yr low level movements and spending habits are also being harvested and onsold.
Its part of why several high profile "business people" are pushing for a totally cashless society.
Its not to cover tax evasion, its so they can profile you even further, as that is where the money is to be made..
It would be interesting to find what the true cost of covering the increasing electronic fraud is, as im sure its getting close to any savings made.

What i reckon would also be really interesting to find out is if all the MyKi and ETag data is also being held for "analysis", well after it should have been deleted as no longer necessary to give you "the best price for your trip"
ie why cant you buy one use paper tickets etc like in every other part of the world. Its not a ticketing system

Andrew

[doppler (Rick)]

I think the scary part is that you really never know where your data will end up being used. And in this case they collected data from third parties aka friends without their knowledge.

Luckily we don't have road tolls up here and public transport is still old school pay cash. They did try ticket less parking but a lot of the oldies won't use smart phone apps so the council had to keep the ticket machines in service.

I try and use my phone as just a phone and have no apps installed and also keep location services turned off. If I do use the net on my mobile Google still seems to know what town I am in, presumably from the phone network towers that I'm connected to.

Cheers Rick

[multiweb (Marc)]

This turned out to be a storm in a tea cup mostly driven by a media beat up. I think the main issue here is that Facebook data was used. When you look deeper into data mining my understanding is that Facebook is one of the only company not making its data available. On the other end of the spectrum you have Google who will sell it and make it available, sometime for free for any purpose. People reacted seemingly surprised that Facebook was "careless" in not taking more precautions to secure access to its data. It's laughable at best because the majority of the data people willingly leave on facebook is mostly public domain anyway as they have 1000s of friends and post publicly. What is more of a worry is all the specific data that your insurance company, the RTA, the ATO, your mobile devices, your smart devices, your local council, your health practitioners collect on a daily basis and potentially freely sell to the highest bidder, but nobody seems to know or worry much about this side of things. I find data mining and machine learning fascinating. It's a fantastic tool. It has very good applications in scientifis fields. But business and making money at its core is still pure maths at the end of the day so that's where the $$$ are still and with the sheer volume of data given by everyone knowingly or not a machine will end up knowing you better than yourself and will anticipate your next move, need or sway your next decision.

[leon]

Maybe it is good that the only social media i partake in is talking to you guys on IIS.

Leon

[raymo]

Same with me, although its not surprising, as I still have a VHS player,
and don't know[or want to know] how to use a mobile phone, or send
text messages etc:
raymo

[leon]

Raymo, I do have a mobile phone, everyone laughs at me as it is an old Dinosaur/Tradie thing and dose nothing more than receive the occasional call and maybe a text once a week, if i am lucky.

It doesn't have all that fancy App's stuff and has never opened up the Internet in its life, I don't think I know how to be honest.

Sometimes I don't even know where it is until I come across it either in the car or lying around the house

It sure isn't what you would call a mobile Phone, it doesn't really go far

Leon

[LewisM]

Facebook - showing millions what the glutton in you had for breakfast, lunch and dinner for the past 20 years.

In other words, WHO GIVES A FARK!

I deactivated my Facebook account a good while ago, and NO plans to ever re-instigate it. Same with Twatter and all the other carp. And to top that off, removed myself from exposure to the complete BS propagandist mainstream media - no Channel 7, 9, ABC and rarely SBS, let alone any Yank "news". Complete farce.

Becoming a hermit sounds ideal.

[Imme (Jon)]

I was at a conference last year where a guy from America spoke on how they use mined data to 'randomly' seat people at a stadium he operated (baseball).
The spruke the fact you could win free corporate box seats if you sign on to their wifi network before your enter the stadium.....what you are actually doing is signing on to a network that mines the date from your phone and profiles you by what sites your phone has visited......they then use this information to seat you in a specific section of the stadium.....that section of the stadium has custom tailored advertisements played on localized screens that are aimed at you and the people who have been profiled to be like you (and seated in that section). e.g. - people profiled as drinkers get lots of beer and junk food ads, health nuts get water and health food ads.......but get this......the absolute killer of the whole system.......they also profile you in to what team you support........if your team is losing badly they push extra alcohol ads on you (why watch anymore of the game, I'll go grab a beer instead) and if your team is winning they flood you with merchandise and team membership ads.

This guys reported profits at this stadium he runs since implementing this profile system have risen by 270%!!!

Advertising has definitely changed.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Imme

This guys reported profits at this stadium he runs since implementing this profile system have risen by 270%!!!

Advertising has definitely changed.

Not surprised at all. Over a decade ago there was a lot of money thrown into researching the best colors for branding based on the products you wanted to sell. I don't know the specifics but apparently there are a range of human emotional reactions to various tones that triggers trust, comfort, fear, etc... Advertising and marketing have come a long way.

[Imme (Jon)]

Originally Posted by Imme

I was at a conference last year where a guy from America spoke on how they use mined data to 'randomly' seat people at a stadium he operated (baseball).
The spruke the fact you could win free corporate box seats if you sign on to their wifi network before your enter the stadium.....what you are actually doing is signing on to a network that mines the date from your phone and profiles you by what sites your phone has visited......they then use this information to seat you in a specific section of the stadium.....that section of the stadium has custom tailored advertisements played on localized screens that are aimed at you and the people who have been profiled to be like you (and seated in that section). e.g. - people profiled as drinkers get lots of beer and junk food ads, health nuts get water and health food ads.......but get this......the absolute killer of the whole system.......they also profile you in to what team you support........if your team is losing badly they push extra alcohol ads on you (why watch anymore of the game, I'll go grab a beer instead) and if your team is winning they flood you with merchandise and team membership ads.

This guys reported profits at this stadium he runs since implementing this profile system have risen by 270%!!!

Advertising has definitely changed.

.....I forgot about another little thing he told me.

Apparently in Japan they now track your phone tower to tower and can send you a message notifying you of 'specials' at shops local to where you are actually located based on your preferences and previous purchase history. e.g. - you've previously signed on to a boost juice wifi network, you're a health nut (based on your browser history) and you're close to a boost juice shop......if you tick these three boxes you will most likely get a message that says something along the lines of "Head to boost juice and show this message in the next 15 minutes to receive 20% off".

[AndrewJ]

Gday Jon
Its not just Japan, and it doesnt require phone towers anymore
Just Google "Advertising Beacons"
https://www.digitaldoughnut.com/arti...-you-need-to-k

Andrew

[Imme (Jon)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Gday Jon
Its not just Japan, and it doesnt require phone towers anymore
Just Google "Advertising Beacons"
https://www.digitaldoughnut.com/arti...-you-need-to-k

Andrew

Well there you go!

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by Imme

I was at a conference last year where a guy from America spoke on how they use mined data to 'randomly' seat people at a stadium he operated (baseball).
The spruke the fact you could win free corporate box seats if you sign on to their wifi network before your enter the stadium.....what you are actually doing is signing on to a network that mines the date from your phone and profiles you by what sites your phone has visited......they then use this information to seat you in a specific section of the stadium.....that section of the stadium has custom tailored advertisements played on localized screens that are aimed at you and the people who have been profiled to be like you (and seated in that section). e.g. - people profiled as drinkers get lots of beer and junk food ads, health nuts get water and health food ads.......but get this......the absolute killer of the whole system.......they also profile you in to what team you support........if your team is losing badly they push extra alcohol ads on you (why watch anymore of the game, I'll go grab a beer instead) and if your team is winning they flood you with merchandise and team membership ads.

This guys reported profits at this stadium he runs since implementing this profile system have risen by 270%!!!

Advertising has definitely changed.

Hey Jon, - is it possible (assuming you know) to explain in a simple sentence or two how they 'grab' this information from your phone which presumably could be resting in your pocket not being used the whole time?

It's a complete mystery to me even tho I get that it goes on.

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by Imme

.....I forgot about another little thing he told me.

Apparently in Japan they now track your phone tower to tower and can send you a message notifying you of 'specials' at shops local to where you are actually located based on your preferences and previous purchase history. e.g. - you've previously signed on to a boost juice wifi network, you're a health nut (based on your browser history) and you're close to a boost juice shop......if you tick these three boxes you will most likely get a message that says something along the lines of "Head to boost juice and show this message in the next 15 minutes to receive 20% off".

My missus has been getting these types of ads following her round for a few years now. I have the same phone but don't get them, so at some stage it seems she signed up for something that I didn't.

[Imme (Jon)]

Originally Posted by PCH

Hey Jon, - is it possible (assuming you know) to explain in a simple sentence or two how they 'grab' this information from your phone which presumably could be resting in your pocket not being used the whole time?

It's a complete mystery to me even tho I get that it goes on.

I'm not 100% on that, but, if you "sign on" to a commercial WIFI network you normally need to accept their terms and conditions.....in the T&C's there will be something about collecting personal information. Think about any apps you download......theres always a page with small writing we never read that talks about location services and collection of data.....this is all useable info!

I would hazard a guess that they collect location data (past and present) and internet search history/pages visited.

I think it's pretty easy for them to collect the info and build a profile on you....lets face it, by looking at this page I can tell the following about you just by glancing at it - You're male, you are relatively financial (because of your interest in an expensive hobby), you live in Perth (and with one more click I could get your lat/long and find your location more or less exactly), you barrack for Liverpool (and thus have an interest in soccer) If I then took the time to look through posts you've made over the years I would say I'd be able to construct a fairly accurate picture of who you are and what you do with your time just by grabbing small bits of info that by themselves mean little, but together mean a lot. An innocent comment about 'the wife and I' shows your married - so, if I was a flower shop in Perth and valentines day was tomorrow I'd definitely want to shoot you some advertising about a special I had on red roses because I know as a married man who is financially stable you would most likely want to buy some flowers in the next 24 hours........see what I mean?

That same guy that spoke of the stadium stuff.....he said a typical Asian consumer had around 2,000 electronic pieces of info stored about them by data miners, the average Aussie had 200. (and this was a year or two ago)

[Imme (Jon)]

Originally Posted by PCH

My missus has been getting these types of ads following her round for a few years now. I have the same phone but don't get them, so at some stage it seems she signed up for something that I didn't.

Commercial WIFI......the shops don't pay for this.....a third party provides it for free in the shops name.......they are 'paid' by on-selling the data they collect.

I am approached at work on a regular basis with offers of free wifi for my customers.

Anyone ever signed on to McDonalds free WIFI?
Do you have your phone set to "automatically connect to trusted WIFI networks"?
.....my understanding is that all McDonalds WIFI is provided by the same company (the 'trusted network' because you signed up to it), accepting their T&C's means that they can collect info from you at any of their outlets, if you go for a drive somewhere and pass 4 x different McDonalds on the way then they can map your movements because your phone speaks to their 'trusted network' as you drive past......now that is valuable data!

[billdan (Bill)]

These sort of things doesn't happen in the digital domain either.

A few years ago, in a shopping centre, I bought a lottery ticket to win a car and the money benefited some charity. I had to leave my name and postal address.

A week later I was hounded by junk mail in the letter box, from different charities begging for money.

Never again.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by billdan

These sort of things doesn't happen in the digital domain either.

A few years ago, in a shopping centre, I bought a lottery ticket to win a car and the money benefited some charity. I had to leave my name and postal address.

A week later I was hounded by junk mail in the letter box, from different charities begging for money.

Never again.

Some charity stopped me in a shopping centre once, and asked for me to commit to a sign up, dollar a day support some kid somewhere. It got to the point where she demanded I entered my bank details IN FRONT OF HER, including my CREDIT CARD to make a direct deposit on the spot. I walked away. She started in on me publicly, and I told her I would talk to centre management and the head office of her charity - both of which I did. They were not there 3 hours later.

I simply ignore them now - even the Life Saver bucket guys.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Like we ever really needed one? Anyone with two+ brain cells could see what the real business plan was a decade ago...