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Old 11-06-2016, 08:36 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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DIY ICX453AQ, Sony sensor CCD camera

Following from this thread, time to form its own thread.

Following on from CN discussions, here, as lead by the great work of Hippieua and Vakulenko (Sergiy), also see here, the object is to build an astro camera, ASCOM compliant using the Sony ICX453AQ sensor (as used in QHY8 and Nikon camera.

Initially this started a a great project but got a little bogged in changes and lack of cooling and the need for users to adapt and machine housings with UV/IR filter etc. ATM most bugs are ironed out for the "square PCB ver" but the "round PCB ver" still needs work in curing noise etc.

A few IIS'ers have expressed interest and this is a great project. I will be making one soon and can offer some assistance mainly in the SMD soldering area. Obviously I cannot help if dozrns of users want to build...but can help a few.

I'm still waiting for cooling cold finger to be adapted to this project but are building a BOM for parts for the square PCB board that can be sourced in Australia. This said...one of 2 parts are now not available or not sold here but I am chasing alternates. I'll be doing this for next 2 weeks as it takes a long time to cross check specs and read document datasheets. But I'll post it soon.

The other thing is the U1 dual rail buck converter, -8V/+15V out in QFN package. I'm not happy with this and have started some searching for alternates but this will require PCB changes, something I'd rather not do as the implication might degraded performance. Still thinking about this. I can do QFN packages with my hot air gun...but...I'm not overly joyed by this prospect.

I won't repost PCB gerbers etc as they are up to date and best held by the designers. We will also need to put these PCBs out for manufacture from a PCB fab house. The more the cheaper. Also buying parts in bulk can lower costs.

Anyway, lets get the discussion ball rolling.

Brendan
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Old 11-06-2016, 10:50 PM
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Hi Brendan

I was also doing parts list and preparing to start a new thread :-)

As you said the round board is not as good as the square one (higher noise levels). Also the round board has 10cm diameter which I thought was quite large.

Here are my findings so far:

All parts are available at RS components apart from the sensor (obviously) and:
CXD1267AN-N can be sourced from ebay, $25
AT93C46-10S (discontinued???)
AD9826JRSZ - RS has AD9826KRSZ, I have not looked yet to see what the difference is, it may be suitable
BC847B.235 - it is a transistor, should be easy enough to find a replacement.
Ordering all from RS comes to $86, not including the capacitors, resistors and inductors which should not cost too much. RS also has free shipping so it is a good source for small orders

I have attached the Excel sheet showing the RS pricing for all parts, rounded up to a nearest $ (some parts were only few c but I rounded them to 1$).

As you said soldering should not be too difficult apart from U1. I don't have reflow oven or anything similar but this video shows how to do it by hand. Not for faint-hearted but I am happy to try. I am also happy to help few others with SMD components.

Also I had a quick quote for the manufacture of the square board from PCBway. I have to double-check but I think it was about $25 for 10 boards from China + $30 postage. The price per board drops significantly on larger quantities of course as shipping is the killer. I used them in the past and the boards were quite good. Ah, and they have few $ paypal fee... squeezing every cent.

The biggest issue I have is actually making the box and especially the cooling. I do not have any machining capabilities. One option would be to use the recommended Gainta G107 box (which probably can be found in the local shops, it looks like a standard size). But again we need to solve the cooling. It looks like most of people used copper cylinder and a large heatsink with a fan at the back of the box.

Luka

edit: added the Excel sheet
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File Type: zip Bill_Of_Mats_Cam84_v41.xls.zip (7.0 KB, 74 views)
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:13 PM
glend (Glen)
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I am pretty sure someone on IIS was going to get some composite boxes fabricated for this camera. Brendan might remember that?
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:49 AM
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Hi folks. Composite box sounds nice but I guess we also should look at sealing and ability to shim the PCB so the sensor is orthogonal.

Luka I'll download your spread sheet and compare to mine. I was up to just starting the resistors identification (Cam84 ver 4.1).

CXD1267AN (not -N ver but this should be ok) ....UTS for $3.33. UTS are pretty good.

AT93C46-10S ...an alternate...RS, AT93C46DN-SH-B, RS number, 696-2743, a 1Kb, 64 x 16 or 128 x 8 bit eeprom. I think this is suitable but need to check a little more. Princely sum of $.35 ea.

AD9826JRSZ - RS has AD9826KRSZ,...I think this is fine, the nomenclature on the end is just minor revisions like temp rating colour package etc. I am looking at data pdf's to ensure comp ability. $17 ea.

The rest easy to find or alternates. I'll do my own sheet and compare with yours then we might be best to post it in the thread so that everyone can acces but only a few can change!

I've quite a bit of work comparing data pdf's on alternates....this takes some time! It should take me a full week or a little less. trying to type when I've just had a right elbow ulnar nerve de-compress operation a day ago. Quite funny really....I look like an idiot with one bad arm!

I'll get back soon.

edit:
forgot to mention a lot of parts are bulk order, ie: 74HC595D in pkg of 10 we need 1 ea. Transistor T1, BC857B.215 comes in pkg of 100, at $.053 ea. Breaking them up for more users is a cheaper way, $.053 ea (doubt we will have 100 users)! And so on...

Last edited by wasyoungonce; 12-06-2016 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:31 AM
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Cool project, Brendan & Luka. I wonder if I could sneak a few into our next prototyping run at work
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:42 PM
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My quick XLS cross check comes up with ~$75 AUD for each PCB in parts (PCB not included) and a few small parts missing from my sheet atm.

But the real cost is buying some parts in bulk packages which atm is around $168 AUD all up. Obviously some items come in packages of 50 etc and we need one or 2 so this is where the cost comes down by buying and split share these packages.

I'm now back to cross checking the main IC's etc.....this'll take time to triple check.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:19 PM
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Here is first iteration of Parts in Australia. I've re-checked Main IC's but are missing some small parts like some Tantals. I've included RS & element 14 stk numbers, costs packages etc

I haven't included case, header for sensor etc. I zipped it using winrar but re-named it to a ".zip" ...hope it unzips ok.

Any mistakes pls say so.
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File Type: zip Brendans BOM Cam84_v41.zip (15.2 KB, 59 views)
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:52 PM
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Hi Rick...of course..if you feel the need to slip one or 2 past at work....who are we to complain!
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:56 PM
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Things are heating up

Since I saw this project a few weeks ago I started looking for a good deal on D40, D50 or D70 on ebay. This morning I got a D40 for $65 shipped. Partially broken (flash + cracked housing) but it takes photos, i.e. the sensor is good. I feel bad for having to throw away the rest of the camera

Anybody else looking for a sensor, buried deeply inside the thread on Cloudy Nights is this:
"D40 and D50 are on the flex board. This certainly makes it easier to remove. You can remove the chip a pin at a time as opposed to having all the pins released at the same time."
For D70 I would recommend using something like ChipQuick to remove the sensor.

Brendan, did you see the "upgraded" parts that were used to improve the round version? I saw a post on CN and I am trying to see if there is anything we can upgrade. Especially the lower noise voltage regulators may be easy to swap if the footprint is the same.

And thank you for doing the list. Note that minimal order from Element14 is $45 to avoid paying for postage.

Regarding the sockets for the sensor, this is probably the most relevant post at CN with DigiKey part numbers. Also see the post on CN, just after the one I linked, regarding using beryllium-copper. I have found a few sockets at RS/Element14 but a much cheaper source would be this. It may need some trimming.
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Old 12-06-2016, 06:42 PM
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Brendan, I had a look at upgrading components as in the CN post I mentioned before. Not sure if it is really worth doing it.

We could swap LP2985 with LP3985 versions. The LP3985 has the same noise levels but lower dropout voltage = less heat generation
5V replacement (U4 and U5)
3.3V replacement (U6 and U7)
(note the extra A in the part number. I could not decipher the meaning from the datasheet)

Unfortunately LM2937IMP-5.0 and LD1117S50CTR have the same package but different pin orientations. The latter has MUCH lower noise levels.


Also an interesting note from CN:
"I supply my cam84 with only 6.5Volts, That is enough for the U2 to regulate the 6Volt and also enough for all other VRs. By doing so the heat generated by the VRs decreased a lot.On U4 I measured a temperature of 70C when operated with 12 volts and with 6.5volts its is only 50C. The 12volt I use now only for my TEC."


And finally, do you know if the PCB design files were ever released? I can't find them in the files I got from CN.
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:14 PM
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Luka the PCB are in gerber format. You can get the PCBs made with these files. I think they were using steed studios.

There are some pdf's of the schematics...easy to convert to your own PCB cad...well not quite....takes some time. I was thinking of doing this but as said you could muck up noise figures by fiddling with the schematics, track size etc. Vakulenko and Hippieua will not release PCB cad drawings apart from those gerber files.

I concur with the regulator changes...but...I was reading a slight difference in bypass and output capacitor selection with the LP3985 vers. Also reading the bypass caps should be ceramic COG or NPO's.

More reading and cross checking required on this. Yes I saw the comment of the supply voltage. I think most ICs run from 5V or 3V so no great need to feed it 12V...just creates more heat than necessary.

I'm not fussed on PCB type, round or square but think the logistics of a round PCB is more difficult. I have not done any BOM for the round PCBs.

On another note...I ordered some parts from UTS as they were cheaper:

CXD1267ANT: SSOP; SONY; qty 5@$3.33 ea, = $16.65 (USD)
AD9826KR: SSOP; AD; qty 3@$4.00 ea = $12.00 (USD)
They are cheap enough to to grab some. Should take ~ 2 weeks to arrive. Already waiting for some parts from them to fix a 13.8 PSU I managed to destroy!

Last edited by wasyoungonce; 12-06-2016 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:04 PM
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I saw the Gerbers but I was hoping they had released the original drawings. Gerbers are too difficult to change and redrawing would take a long time and possibly introduce errors that need to be fixed...

Regarding the comment about the input voltage, the ADP3336 has maximum 400mV dropout voltage so in theory 6.4V at the input should be enough. I had a quick look and there are heaps of (simple 3-pin) DC-DC converters to get 12V down to 6.5V. For example this ($10) or this ($15). The first one is only 0.5A. Of course this needs to be separate from this board.

The round board had worse noise performance and would need a custom made housing. Square may be the one to go for, at least until they fix the round one.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:10 PM
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Can I ask everybody else who is reading this and is interested in building this camera to reply. It would be good to know the rough number of people because bulk ordering parts can significantly drop the price.

At the moment it looks like there is Brendan and me.
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Old 13-06-2016, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luka View Post
....... For example this ($10) or this ($15). The first one is only 0.5A. Of course this needs to be separate from this board.

The round board had worse noise performance and would need a custom made housing. Square may be the one to go for, at least until they fix the round one.
The ADP3336 has very low noise at rated output current...typically 27~45 volts. These other units as small switchmode's with ~30~50MV P/P noise. Which is 100 times more noise. Not good for signal noise in this system.

Yes I agree that some of the power regulators are very close to their limits and probably need an upgrade.

I can do eagle PCB CAD but this is a big job and placement, track size etc will effect noise etc...a lot. This is the problem with the round PCBs.

on another note...I'll need to hunt around for another sensor ICX453AQ. Should have purchased Glens.
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Old 13-06-2016, 09:50 AM
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Meant to say....I'll be building 2~3 boards for myself. One colour one mono one spare. Or at worst case...at least one will work
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Old 13-06-2016, 10:13 AM
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I hope the purchaser of my sensor is following this thread.
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Old 13-06-2016, 11:06 AM
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Brendan, you probably already know but I thought I should mention it anyway if anybody else is reading, ebay is the source for the old cameras (sensors). New sensors seem to cost more than the old broken cameras.

And I think we should forget about redesigning the board. It is too much work and basically we will be going back to prototyping stage. Other people had good results with this design. I have never used Eagle but I can work my way around Altium Designer.

And I was also thinking about building 2... one colour and one mono... We may need more than 2 sensors though, the failure rate of debayering seems to be very high. Glen debayered a Canon 450D sensor but not without casualties.

Also I have access to a 3D printer... possibly for enclosure??? But the plastic box would need EM shielding then (copper tape inside?).

By the way, I have posted a link to this thread in the old thread. Just in case anyone was following that and did not see this thread.
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Old 14-06-2016, 01:06 AM
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Do you think this can be used for L1 and L2?
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/wire-w...ctors/4153338/

It may need some scraping of the solder mask.
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Old 14-06-2016, 09:15 AM
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Luka that's not a bad spec, comparasion wise, but only one thing.

The Sumida unit has current rating at saturation of 1.2A (2.4A max) where the Wurth unit just lists 1.2A max....no idea if this is saturation or max current! The Wurth unit is a little larger but will probably make it.

So atm, it's worthy but I need to find out the saturation/max current specs of the Wurth unit. Arrrrhhh data sheets...don't you love/hate them!
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Old 14-06-2016, 01:09 PM
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Well spotted, it was getting late last night.

Another potential candidate here
http://au.element14.com/bourns/sru60...-30/dp/2374259
Saturation current is 1.3A and the resistance is 0.042 Ohm instead of 0.048. Not sure how much difference it would make???

Another way would be to get it from DigiKey Au and get more parts from them. Free shipping on orders over $200... otherwise $34. That's why I never order from them.
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