The race to find Planet Nine using classical astronomy & new computational techniques

[blindman]

Must say that "attack squad" are mixing science with scientism, so I suggest to see ecxcellent video Scientism Exposed, reachable on YT.

The sun might be BIGGER than we think: Nasa scientists claim this year's historic solar eclipse could prove our star is hundreds of miles larger

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz4piEnADkB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Fakebook

Hehe, in 21st century, with thousands of satellites, the most sophisticated equipment, etc.

[xelasnave]

Hi John
I don't extend my opinion beyond what enjoys reasonable evidence.
What is reasonable is always subjective no doubt.
I think you probably have beliefs that depend upon faith rather than what I would call reasonable evidence but that is your right I have no problems with the fact that presumably you can believe in things that I do not.
As I said I wonder why folk turn to superstition to explain things..if I don't know I have no problem saying I don't know but with folk who indulge superstition saying they don't know seems never.to be an option.
But hopefully , in my view, as humans evolve they will move away from the need to practise superstition ...Can you imagine how wonderful the world could be if superstition was only discussed because it was once part of humans history and thought of as a curious aspect of our past.

And your are probably right in that I am a materialist certainly I am devoid of any spirituality ...who could tell???

All the best

Alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by blindman

Must say that "attack squad" are mixing science with scientism, so I suggest to see ecxcellent video Scientism Exposed, reachable on YT.

The sun might be BIGGER than we think: Nasa scientists claim this year's historic solar eclipse could prove our star is hundreds of miles larger

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz4piEnADkB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Fakebook

Hehe, in 21st century, with thousands of satellites, the most sophisticated equipment, etc.

Hi Blindman

You are winding me up I hope because to think otherwise would leave me with some concern about how you enjoy reality.

I looked for the utube thingy you suggested...this is what I found under the vid....

"What if there has been an agenda to keep people from the Truth of God?"

Do I need to waste over two hours or should I go with my initial reaction that the video will be absolute nonsense.

You, I presume are a beneficiary of science, you have a car, mobile phone, computer and no doubt may have occasion to rely on fancy medicine and yet you seem to ignore those gifts as if they simply popped into the world unassisted by science, and fancy book learning.

I will leave you to experience reality however you wish.

Best wishes
Alex

[xelasnave]

All you guys who are interested in philosophy and happy to bag science, assuming you wish to learn about both philosophy and science, really take the time to read what science really is, what it does and most importantly what it does not do...
Read Popper if you don't you are tilting at windmills ....
Please if you don't know what scientific models are...find out.

The wonderful thing is a few hours on Wiki will educate much better than the nonsence video.

Best wishes
Alex

[blindman]

Hi Alex,
no hard feelings, but Wiki is not thing I would rely on.
As Zappa said ( and I strongly agree ) "brain is like parachute, it works when it is open".

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by blindman

Hi Alex,
no hard feelings, but Wiki is not thing I would rely on.
As Zappa said ( and I strongly agree ) "brain is like parachute, it works when it is open".

Hi Blindman,

No hard feelings, but YouTube is something I would NOT rely on for ANY KIND of factual information.

As Zappa said (and I strongly agree) "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by blindman

Hi Alex,
no hard feelings, but Wiki is not thing I would rely on.
As Zappa said ( and I strongly agree ) "brain is like parachute, it works when it is open".

Honestly man just because some ding bat says something that sounds cute you really don't have to take it on board as absolute wisdom.
Could you not come up with your own words ...more original and I bet you would sound wiser than quoting another.

If you indeed have an open mind you would have your face buried in Wiki seeking knowledge about the reality of what science is and what it is not...

If you have not noticed science grows and evolves as we discover more and make more sense of the world around us...you claim an open mind and yet it seems closed to reality so you can attack a strawman you or your " group" have constructed to suit an agenda I can only guess at...although the link to the video certainly gives me a hint.

I encourage you to open your mind by reading a reliable source of information and you counter with some cute remark by a musician. Think about that please. You say your mind is open yet your very action and rejection says clearly that you are not practising an open mind approach.

Open your mind to the fact that science is not the straw man you attack.

Please read what I suggest as sincerely it will help you understand something which at the moment I suggest you miss.

Others here won't waste their time to help because they were think you are a lost cause but I really would like to help you open your mind.

You don't need to change your beliefs but I promise if you read and learn about what I suggest you will see why I say you fight a straw man of your own construction.

Alex

[luka]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

...Has it ever occurred to you that every human civilization that has ever existed, has had a belief (in one form or another), in the supernatural? In other words, every civilization has held that the senses do not tell us the whole story of mankind's relationship to the manifested world.

I believe there is a more logical explanation behind the belief in supernatural. Unknown and the fear of the unknown. Every civilization so far knew relatively little and lots of things were magic to them. For example, lighting and storms used to be "caused" by god's anger or whatever. Now we know that they are just atmospheric conditions. The supernatural element has disappeared by us studying and learning about the phenomenon.

Of course our senses do not tell us the whole story of mankind's relationship to the world. Our senses are very limited and cannot detect everything. Use a mobile to send sound 1000s km away - our senses cannot detect EM waves and years ago it would have been called supernatural. Cook food in a microwave without fire for someone from 100 years ago and they would call it supernatural magic. Gun powder, rockets, mobiles etc. All would have been called supernatural in primitive civilizations.

There are plenty of things we still don't know and people still like to call them supernatural. There is some mysticism and romanticism that attracts people to the supernatural. But most likely it is just something we still need to figure out.

If there is a lesson to learn from the past it is that there is no reason to assume that everything we cannot sense or explain is supernatural. Calling things supernatural is taking the easy way out, instead of studying and understanding them.

[sharpiel]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

OK, you guys have made your positions very clear and I believe that I would be right in labeling both of you as thorough going materialists....by that I mean that you only believe in what your physical senses tell you. That's fair enough and you have every right to your opinions, but, where you err, is in believing that your opinions are the be all and end all of things. They are not.

Has it ever occurred to you that every human civilization that has ever existed, has had a belief (in one form or another), in the supernatural? In other words, every civilization has held that the senses do not tell us the whole story of mankind's relationship to the manifested world.

I have found Alex's posts here in IIS to be of the most gentle, informed, intuitive, innovative and philosophical nature. He states his position with regard to all facets of the discussion. I would never label him a "materialist". You clearly haven't understood him. Perhaps you should take the time to do so.

If there were more Alex's in the world it would be a better place.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by sharpiel

I have found Alex's posts here in IIS to be of the most gentle, informed, intuitive, innovative and philosophical nature. He states his position with regard to all facets of the discussion. I would never label him a "materialist". You clearly haven't understood him. Perhaps you should take the time to do so.

If there were more Alex's in the world it would be a better place.

Thank you Les for your kind words you create an image of someone who would be hard to live up to.

I looked up " materialist" and found the following with a goggle....

materialist
məˈtɪərɪəlɪst/Submit
noun
plural noun: materialists
1.
a person who considers material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values.
"greedy materialists lusting for consumer baubles"
2.
PHILOSOPHY
a person who supports the theory that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications.
"an atheist and philosophical materialist"

Probably the first is not exactly me I certainly don't care about possessions like most people.

The second may be closer.

And although I identify as an atheist I like to think I follow many of the teachings of Jesus Chris as to supporting positive emotions and rejecting negative emotions and holding a belief that all humans deserve my respect and " love"...and all animals.

I live this way all week not just on Sunday.

My main problem with religions generally is they seem to allow followers to abdicate personal responsibility and assign control to something else.
If something goes wrong in my world I look to how I have created the mess and what I should do to avoid similar problems in the future.


I notice many see a competition between science and religion which is unfortunate and it is a pity religion feels threatened by science.

Science never seeks to offer "why" and leaves religion to answer that question.

There is no need for religious folk to fear science.
Science will not make religion irrelevant however religions in resisting change and evolvement may destroy themselves...science will only study why it happened.

Alex

[xelasnave]

Hi Luka
Its a pity we do not have a like button as I am sure your post would have drawn many likes.

I think your observations really make sense.

Alex

[xelasnave]

And for those with open minds seeking to know more today than they did yesterday you will find Wiki most interesting in its coverage of materialist....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism

Alex

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by sharpiel

I would never label him a "materialist". You clearly haven't understood him. Perhaps you should take the time to do so.

If there were more Alex's in the world it would be a better place.

Originally Posted by xelasnave

And your are probably right in that I am a materialist certainly I am devoid of any spirituality ...who could tell???

All the best

Alex

As you can clearly see from Alex's own words (above), I was quite right to label him a materialist. It was not intended to be derogatory in any sense....it was used to clarify his position.

[xelasnave]

And now everyone is right ...that's the way it should be.

But I think we overlook the danger that is "labelling"....

It sort of takes away ones individuality.

Alex

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

And now everyone is right ...that's the way it should be.

But I think we overlook the danger that is "labelling"....

It sort of takes away ones individuality.

Alex

Fair enough, Alex, 'label' was probably not the best choice of words. BTW, I wasn't advocating any particular belief system, or indeed, any belief system at all, but I was simply trying to open some closed minds to other possibilities....looks like I failed in that endeavour.

[xelasnave]

Well John I think you have done very well, your contribution to this thread certainly caused folk to think and you were instrumental in generating some interesting discussion.
I for one am very happy you take the time to contribute and would encourage you not for one moment to consider that you failed at anything.

Alex

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Well John I think you have done very well, your contribution to this thread certainly caused folk to think and you were instrumental in generating some interesting discussion.
I for one am very happy you take the time to contribute and would encourage you not for one moment to consider that you failed at anything.

Alex

Cheers Alex

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

OK, you guys have made your positions very clear and I believe that I would be right in labeling both of you as thorough going materialists....by that I mean that you only believe in what your physical senses tell you. That's fair enough and you have every right to your opinions, but, where you err, is in believing that your opinions are the be all and end all of things. They are not.

Has it ever occurred to you that every human civilization that has ever existed, has had a belief (in one form or another), in the supernatural? In other words, every civilization has held that the senses do not tell us the whole story of mankind's relationship to the manifested world.

Label me whatever you want. Not once has either Alex or myself claimed to be the 'be all and end all.'
I base my views on the works of those who are experts in the field. My expertise in astronomy is minor planets, and I'm probably not the only one here.
I'm not sure how various civilisation's religious views impact what is orbiting our sun right now, but good on you for trying.

[joe_smith]

I'm not sure how various civilisation's religious views impact what is orbiting our sun right now, but good on you for trying

here is a list of just one group of religious views
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ric-scientists

us humans are all really egocentric, thats why we have different views, belive in different universal views. And thats why we will never have peace on our plannet. Evidence for this is in this post. Question somebodys world veiw and they will become defencive or even out right angry.

What gets me is most people just believe what is told to them and never question anything, That goes for pepple that follow science and religion. To me science and religion are part of all human nature whether you believe in it or not.

To compare science to religion in a statment is like asking is the number 7 blue in color or red? its the wrong comparision.

Also the view above is just based on my own egocentric world view man is good to be human, I'm free to follow my own path.

PS..... nearly all world changeing invetions were made by dreamers not scientists

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by joe_smith

PS..... nearly all world changeing invetions were made by dreamers not scientists

Hi Joe...that sounds good but I bet it is not reality. Folk say such but when you look it just is not so.

But for interest sake who are the dreamers you have in mind and their inventions.

Some would call Tesla a dreamer maybe, is that who you had in mind? He probably tops the list for world changing inventions...radio etc...and I suppose he was not a scientist strictly speaking.

I would be interested in your selection of dreamers.

Alex