#21  
Old 02-01-2020, 02:11 PM
highlander2287 (Brett)
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Thanks again for all the help and advice. I am basically set on a 10" dob with goto. I have 1 or 2 wheeled bases I can use to help with moving it around. The only thing I am still undecided on is whether to go collapsible or solid. There are a few deals at the moment on collapsible goto dobs and I realise it would make things lighter and cheaper. There don't seem to be many options from the getgo with solid tubes fitted with goto, they seem to be an add on. Being a novice I just feel that the solid tube would be more suited for me. Just need to decide and bite the bullet. Just to add, I would still try to search manually but like the option of having the goto available if/when needed.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:19 PM
astro744
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Sounds like a plan. Nothing wrong with truss as you can leave it assembled. Just get a shroud if it doesn't come with one as it will help with contrast. You will definitely use the tracking feature to keep objects centred. I hope you get a lot of hours under clear skies with your new telescope. Enjoy!
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  #23  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:00 PM
raymo
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Operating a SW collapsible couldn't be easier. just extend the tube and tighten
the three knobs, and you are up and running.[say 20 or 30 seconds]. MUCH easier than traditional truss Dobs like the Meade Lightbridge models. Also much easier to carry around than the full tube. The tubes are so substantial that any one tube can act as a carry handle.
raymo

Last edited by raymo; 02-01-2020 at 03:05 PM. Reason: more text
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by highlander2287 View Post
Thanks again for all the help and advice. I am basically set on a 10" dob with goto. I have 1 or 2 wheeled bases I can use to help with moving it around. The only thing I am still undecided on is whether to go collapsible or solid. There are a few deals at the moment on collapsible goto dobs and I realise it would make things lighter and cheaper. There don't seem to be many options from the getgo with solid tubes fitted with goto, they seem to be an add on. Being a novice I just feel that the solid tube would be more suited for me. Just need to decide and bite the bullet. Just to add, I would still try to search manually but like the option of having the goto available if/when needed.
Okay, up front, I don't own a collapsible SW Dob but, I have a mate who uses a 12" collapsible dob in his astronomy tours up here in Cairns. This scope is manhandled 3 - 4 times a week into the rear compartment of his 4wd, driven over several kms of relatively rough track to the darksite where he conducts his tours & then manhandled out of the 4wd to the viewing location... He is careful but, not especially gentle with this scope... Rarely if ever does he actually have to do a great deal with collimation.. serioulsy, it holds it that well.. he will every so often do a quick check with a collimation cap & laser in daylight maybe once a month but, invariably he finds he doesn't have to touch anything...

Remember, he is using this for paying customers (and as it turns out, some of his paying customers are professional astronomers visiting from abroad)...

He doesn't use a shroud either... he just gets it out (2 person lift - it is the 12" afterall), plonks it on the ground, undoes the brackets, pulls it up to full extension, locks the brackets, slips in an eyepiece & off he goes.. He doesn't need Goto but, I & many others do.... or at least Digital Setting Circles & a device...

I have a custom built 12" truss dob (Gondwana), I was planning to have a shroud made for using it in my backyard to limit stray light.... have found I don't actually need it for that or to keep dust off the mirror.. it has a mirror box cuff about a foot tall that does the job just fine.. only reason I might put a shroud on it is for insurance against accidently dropping something heavier than a collimation cap onto the mirror...

Go for the collapsible, your back will enjoy the weight relief & your collimation & views will be superb...
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Old 02-01-2020, 03:45 PM
gaseous (Patrick)
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A 10" GOTO dob will be a scope you'll love. I see a certain Brisbane-based astro shop has the Skywatcher 10" goto for $1999 delivered, if their website is accurate.
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  #26  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:04 PM
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Astro744 - i am not sure what goto system you are using.. the newer goto systems are quite accurate.. and my lx90 keeps the target dead centre at 300X for 2h.. i have not stuck to an object for longer than 2h so i do not know if it will stay in the FOV indefinitely.. sure it might not be dead centred after the first allignment.. but the newer systems have a synchronize function.. which means you could go on refining the accuracy as the night goes.. and it takes me literally 2 minutes to align my scope now (after the first two nights of figuring out how to work the hand controller)..

As to galaxies... lets not kid ourselves.. if you want to actually visualize a galaxy properly (with all its beautiful spirals) then you will need something with an aperture of more than 20inches.. The only galaxies i see in my 12inch are a tiny smidge of fluff and that too barely... in that case you will need a super large dobsonian, driven or otherwise.. even then you will not enjoy the views... galaxies are best appreciated via astrophotography... and that is a whole different ball game as it requires an equatorial mount or a derotator and other expensive equipment to get it right..

Aperture is important, in fact, very important... it will make your visual viewing brighter... but never more important than your mount! If you have a horrible mount without goto, you will get frustrated and loose interest..

And when you turn 70 and want to conquer your dreams of visualising a galaxy as what they look like in photos, then get a super large, undriven dob.. by that age you would have developed the patience and time (as you might be retired) to spend the whole night under the skies to tickle your fancies..
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:17 PM
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Brett - i have sent you a pm... pls check..
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2020, 05:48 PM
highlander2287 (Brett)
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I have noticed that ozscopes also have a sale on a 10" black diamond dob with goto and wifi delivered for $1938. I don't want to start any store bashing but am curious if there are any opinions or experiences on either store (astroastronomy and ozscopes). I have a local store that sell various types of equipment including skywatcher dobs but but do not list a 10". I might speak to them and see if they can get a 10" with goto in and at what price.
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2020, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by highlander2287 View Post
I have noticed that ozscopes also have a sale on a 10" black diamond dob with goto and wifi delivered for $1938. I don't want to start any store bashing but am curious if there are any opinions or experiences on either store (astroastronomy and ozscopes). I have a local store that sell various types of equipment including skywatcher dobs but but do not list a 10". I might speak to them and see if they can get a 10" with goto in and at what price.
Can't comment on Ozscopes but, Astro Anarchy are excellent to deal with...

Cheers
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  #30  
Old 02-01-2020, 07:52 PM
astro744
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Astro744 - i am not sure what goto system you are using.. the newer goto systems are quite accurate.. and my lx90 keeps the target dead centre at 300X for 2h.. i have not stuck to an object for longer than 2h so i do not know if it will stay in the FOV indefinitely.. sure it might not be dead centred after the first allignment.. but the newer systems have a synchronize function.. which means you could go on refining the accuracy as the night goes.. and it takes me literally 2 minutes to align my scope now (after the first two nights of figuring out how to work the hand controller)..

As to galaxies... lets not kid ourselves.. if you want to actually visualize a galaxy properly (with all its beautiful spirals) then you will need something with an aperture of more than 20inches.. The only galaxies i see in my 12inch are a tiny smidge of fluff and that too barely... in that case you will need a super large dobsonian, driven or otherwise.. even then you will not enjoy the views... galaxies are best appreciated via astrophotography... and that is a whole different ball game as it requires an equatorial mount or a derotator and other expensive equipment to get it right..

Aperture is important, in fact, very important... it will make your visual viewing brighter... but never more important than your mount! If you have a horrible mount without goto, you will get frustrated and loose interest..

And when you turn 70 and want to conquer your dreams of visualising a galaxy as what they look like in photos, then get a super large, undriven dob.. by that age you would have developed the patience and time (as you might be retired) to spend the whole night under the skies to tickle your fancies..
I have a Losmandy GM8 with Gemini I. It is a single line multi level scrolling text based system. I have dabbled with GOTO but whole experience doesn't enthuse me enough. Upgrading to Gemini II has not interested me. I can connect to SkyTools Pro on a PC for a moving map display but again not interested. Many people love GOTO, I'm simply not one of them.

I have no trouble finding galaxies in my suburban back yard including galaxy hopping through Virgo including quasar 3C 273. M83 too is visible in 15x70 binoculars. Most galaxies are just a smudge but they get brighter as aperture increases. The best thing you can do to observe galaxies is to go to a dark site. If I want photos I'll visit the Hubble web site, same reason why I don't bother with astrophotography. I enjoy seeing the light from a distant galaxy directly in the eyepiece, not via an image on a photo. My main interest is finding an object and then trying to find it again from memory later in the night or the next night. That is what I enjoy most and in doing so I build up my own internal GOTO database in my head and it's faster for me than any computer driven mount.

No telescope will show you what a photo shows and no photo will bring to you those photons in real time (accounting for light travel time). Not everyone will get frustrated without GOTO and I don't agree with that assumption. A mount without GOTO is not necessarily horrible too. Also I don't need to so spend all night finding objects. I can enjoy an hour of star hoping with nothing more than a telescope and a star chart (if not going off memory) and find dozens of objects.

I think if you like using GOTO then that's fine especially if you get frustrated navigating the sky otherwise. I'm sure there are plenty of observers who could not live without GOTO but I think to there are many that can enjoy the hobby without frustration without a GOTO system and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. (In case your wondering I don't like using a GPS when driving but prefer to look at a street map, memorise the route and drive on).

Clear skies to you!
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:44 PM
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I have a Losmandy GM8 with Gemini I. It is a single line multi level scrolling text based system. I have dabbled with GOTO but whole experience doesn't enthuse me enough. Upgrading to Gemini II has not interested me. I can connect to SkyTools Pro on a PC for a moving map display but again not interested. Many people love GOTO, I'm simply not one of them.

I have no trouble finding galaxies in my suburban back yard including galaxy hopping through Virgo including quasar 3C 273. M83 too is visible in 15x70 binoculars. Most galaxies are just a smudge but they get brighter as aperture increases. The best thing you can do to observe galaxies is to go to a dark site. If I want photos I'll visit the Hubble web site, same reason why I don't bother with astrophotography. I enjoy seeing the light from a distant galaxy directly in the eyepiece, not via an image on a photo. My main interest is finding an object and then trying to find it again from memory later in the night or the next night. That is what I enjoy most and in doing so I build up my own internal GOTO database in my head and it's faster for me than any computer driven mount.

No telescope will show you what a photo shows and no photo will bring to you those photons in real time (accounting for light travel time). Not everyone will get frustrated without GOTO and I don't agree with that assumption. A mount without GOTO is not necessarily horrible too. Also I don't need to so spend all night finding objects. I can enjoy an hour of star hoping with nothing more than a telescope and a star chart (if not going off memory) and find dozens of objects.

I think if you like using GOTO then that's fine especially if you get frustrated navigating the sky otherwise. I'm sure there are plenty of observers who could not live without GOTO but I think to there are many that can enjoy the hobby without frustration without a GOTO system and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. (In case your wondering I don't like using a GPS when driving but prefer to look at a street map, memorise the route and drive on).

Clear skies to you!
What a great comment Astro744 , some of us were lucky enough to learn where things were before GOTO .

Like map reading today ' if the GPS stops working most are stuffed !

Bobby.
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  #32  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:30 PM
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Astro744- haha.. no gps? Omg!...

But I do agree... when you do it the hard way, you remember better.. having said that, astronomy, is not life or death for everyone... some people do not have the time or patience...

I had a lot of patience when I started with my Newtonian 25 years ago but just did not have the time.. I got very frustrated and cursed myself for not getting a proper driven scope.. not so much the GOTO function, but the tracking.. Had to keep fiddling with the setting circles the whole night.. and I was also using charts back then.. that is all we had back then! I dropped stargazing for many years in between for the fact it was taking too much of my time and I had to focus on studies (like what normal people do).. and partly because I did not have my scope with me while at uni and during the early working days..

The lx90 with the help of sky safari pro has made me learn much more and much quicker... now I can focus on the detail rather than having to adjust my scope every couple of minutes.. Mind you, the people who created these programmes and GOTO systems were all traditional Star hoppers like yourself who probably realised how much easier life would be with them around..

Having said that, if you are really passionate about astronomy and want a challenge and are extremely good with your sense of direction with ample amount of patience and time then by all means a large undriven scope would be your pick...
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:12 PM
highlander2287 (Brett)
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I am just curious as to why solid tube dobs do not appear to come "standard" as goto setups, whereas collapsibles seem to. Is there any particlar reason.
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:39 PM
raymo
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Collapsibles are more popular than solid tubes, so easier to sell. They wouldn't
want to get stuck with unsold more expensive scopes. Also, the Dobs from
Bintel are not made in collapsible and/or GOTO form as far as I know.
raymo
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:45 PM
highlander2287 (Brett)
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Fair enough. Thanks for that.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:01 PM
highlander2287 (Brett)
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Interestingly I've also noticed that online most shops/websites ask between $70-$200 for delivery depending where you live which is fair enough, but one or two sell on ebay as well and on there they only apparently charge $25 delivery to the same area. Makes you wonder why they can't offer the cheaper price on their websites.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:32 PM
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Collapsibles are more popular than solid tubes, so easier to sell. They wouldn't
want to get stuck with unsold more expensive scopes. Also, the Dobs from
Bintel are not made in collapsible and/or GOTO form as far as I know.
raymo
Bintel sell both solid tube and collapsible with the latter with or without GOTO.

See https://www.bintel.com.au/product-ca...v=6cc98ba2045f

If youíre nearby drop in and talk to the guys there. Their advice is first class and you see what you are getting if itís on the showroom floor.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:45 PM
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Price pressure, [competition] including freight charges, is immense on ebay,
so they are forced to suck up some of the delivery costs in order to make a sale. In the world of bricks and mortar [especially Australia] competition is
much less, even sometimes non existent, so they can pass on the full freight cost, which is fair enough. They can of course offer to pay some of the freight
in order to sweeten a deal.
Hi Astro 744, I had forgotten that Bintel now sell SW gear, and was referring to their GSO Dobs.
raymo

Last edited by raymo; 04-01-2020 at 07:49 PM. Reason: more text
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Old 05-01-2020, 07:06 AM
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I want to get into some star watching with my wife and surprise her with a telescope. I would like to be able to view some deep sky stuff so have been doing a bit of googling and research for suitable scopes within my budget range of about $1500-$2000. Have tried to narrow the choices down by looking at scopes with the most positive reviews from owners. At this stage I would mainly be wanting to look from my backyard. Not looking at travelling to locations. Have narrowed it so far to a short list of 200/1000 skywatcher, celestron 8se (although a bit dearer) and a 10" dob. At this stage I am leaning towards the 10" dob and if so down the track maybe getting a dob goto setup to help with location objects. So I was just after any thought or advice on this information. Any advice appreciated.
Just to throw a spanner back in the works after rereading your ad I think the 14Ē collapsible SW telescope that just came up for sale in the classifieds would fit the bill. Itís within budget, itís a great choice for DSOs and it may be close enough to you for an inspection.

Itís not GOTO but that came up later in the discussion and if thats important to you then forget the 14Ē but ask yourself what part of GOTO is important. If itís the tracking then no the one for sale wonít have it. If itís the ability to find objects then consider PUSH-TO in the form of NEXUS II and a tablet.

See https://www.astrodevices.com/shop/in...age/8/Nexus-II

and https://www.astrodevices.com/shop/in...le+Encoder+Kit

Check with Serge at Astro Devices to ensure correct selection. Go with the highest resolution encoders you can afford.

As I said Iím not a GOTO fan as I prefer to locate objects on my own but I do have PUSH-TO on a smaller mount and the NEXUS II combined with iPhone or iPad is great for learning where objects are located because you see where the Ďscope is pointing on a moving map display. You can zoom in or out and when you search for an object there are pointers on screen showing you which way to nudge the telescope. Just keep your screen red and dim and it wonít interfere with your night vision.

Note a 14Ē telescope will gather 2x more light than a 10Ē and 3x more than an 8Ē. I know it sounds like aperture fever creeping in but I am just trying to get you the most for your money and save you buying another larger telescope latter. I also think the PUSH-TO system is great for learning if you donít want to do it with charts and reference books and can be added aftermarket when you have the funds. Maybe itís not for the beginner but not every beginner is the same and it would be a shame if after 10 years of use you would have your GOTO show you hundreds of objects and yet you still donít know the sky. Iím not saying that will happen to you and if you have your heart and mind set on GOTO then go for it and you will likely enjoy it but as I said before try not to sacrifice too much aperture.

A 10Ē telescope can be a lifetime Ďscope and my only reason for this post is to bring to your attention another option with would have normally been beyond budget but now affordable. A 14Ē may be too much telescope for a beginner or it may not it depending on the beginner. You could always complement it with a small refractor on a smaller GOTO mount but youíll soon realise aperture wins (except for widefields where a small refractor excels) If I hadnít recently invested in a 16Ē Iíd be getting the 14Ē for myself because of its compact (collapsible) design.

I apologise if this has complicated your decision making and maybe it will sell before you decide. I highly recommend going into store at BINTEL and have a look at different telescopes and talk to the staff there as they are very helpful and you may just walk out with something different. There is no right and wrong telescope and if it gets you under the stars itís all good. Be warned now you will end up with multiple telescopes of different designs one day and you will enjoy them all for different reasons so it probably doesnít matter what you start with. Who said buying a telescope was easy! (Same goes for eyepieces but thatís another story).

Whatever you choose, enjoy!
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Old 05-01-2020, 12:35 PM
highlander2287 (Brett)
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Yes I did notice the add for the 14". Thanks for the heads up anyway. I will certainly give it some consideration.
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