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Old 13-05-2015, 11:00 PM
ericwbenson (Eric)
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FLI Proline + SX Lodestar

Hi,
Equipment problems as usual for me...does anyone here reliably use, or has experiences with, an SX Lodestar guider plugged into the built-in 2 port USB hub of the FLI Proline camera?

I am having random problems such that when I power up the equipment remotely (via 12V IP switch from 700 km away), the computer reports the camera(s)+hub as an "Unknown device" under the "Universal Serial Bus controllers" branch in the Device Manager. A "Generic USB Hub" device will sometimes flash on/off a few times in the device list, but eventually it ends up as an "Unknown device".

The Lodestar is of course powered by the USB connection so I can't power cycle it independently at this time.

The Proline can be power cycled by itself, and it is plugged into a 4 port powered USB hub (made by Carnetix, very reliable over the last 4 years), which can also be power cycled. The hub connects directly into the back of a FIT-PC2 computer.

I have had someone fix this once for me (we don't really know how, just a lot of USB unplugging and driver reinstall), but I would like to get to the bottom of the problem. I think my next step is unplug the SX from the Proline and connect it straight to the Carnetix hub (actually how it was before when I had an Apogee camera), but this means an extra cable to be dragged by the rotator and when I power cycle the SX I lose the connection to the focuser, which is also plugged into the Carnetix hub, always a trade off.

Thanks for any advice,
EB
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  #2  
Old 14-05-2015, 01:10 AM
niharika
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Hi Eric,
I have the same configuration with out the remote power switch. Sx is connected to the pl hub and pl is connected directly to the pc. I do not have any issue.

Regards
Raki
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Old 14-05-2015, 08:54 AM
cfranks (Charles)
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If you have had it work successfully before then this comment is probably not valid. There is a limit to chaining USB Hubs and the extra hub in your chain may be the problem. Raki has his pl plugged directly into the PC and yours goes through an additional hub.

Charles
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Old 14-05-2015, 11:48 AM
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gregbradley
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Its often an issue that hubs fail to connect on power up. It seems a weak point of pcs.

Usually a power on off cycle and shut down the software and reopen it once the power is back on to the device helps.

Next gradient is to turn the computer off and on.

If still no go then reload the driver.

Making sure all the plugs are snugly in.

I found the driver SX gives you is no good for 64bit. The older 64bit block IO works but not their latest one. I found that out the hard way wasting several hours trying to get my SX Trius to work on my 64bit laptop even though I had it working once before in the past.

Last time I used it I had that type of error. I then reloaded the block IO driver and it all went well. You do that through Control Panel, USB devices.

Touchy stuff.

Greg.
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Old 14-05-2015, 01:10 PM
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HI Eric,

I had this same problem when I was using the ST-i through a Mount Hub Pro. To rid myself of the problem I ran the long cable through the mount and connected it directly to the computer. If you have a spare USB port on your fit PC then try that.

I think this problem primarily is about power to the camera. The camera will have trouble connecting if the power is just slightly off. I have noted that this problem never has occurred again since going direct.
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Old 14-05-2015, 05:42 PM
ericwbenson (Eric)
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Thanks for the advice so far guys.

This afternoon I had someone move the Lodestar USB from the FLI 2 port hub to the Carnetix 4 port hub. The Lodestar now work fine, but the FLI still shows up as "Unknown Device". So now I suspect the a) USB cable to the camera, b) the USB socket on the hub which the camera is plugged into, or c) the cam itself

Fortunately he reports the camera loaded fine on his laptop, so hopefully it's a) or b) and not c)...

Unfortunately I don't think there is a long enough cable up there to replace it with (I need at least 2 m for the rotator slack and distance from back of scope to front of scope), so it might have to wait a fore more weeks...well I've been off line for nearly a year so what's a little longer

EB
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Old 20-05-2015, 11:32 AM
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Oh the dreaded "Unknown Device" message.

All too familiar.

If the Proline is loading fine on someone else's laptop then the cables are likely fine? I find this sort of problem is usually the driver not loading or the computer not reading the camera for some reason.

I see it all the time even with a "stable" setup.

Sometimes merely unplugging the USB cable and replugging it in allows it to be recognised and the driver located. Other times I need to shut down CCDsoft and reload it. Sometimes I need to power off the cam then shut down CCDSoft then reload CCDsoft and then power up the cam.

Sometimes I need to power off the cam, turn off the computer and turn it back on then power up the cam.

Originally I could not get my FLI Filter wheel to be recognised after many tries.

What fixed it was the flilib.dll (I think that's it name) file in CCDsoft was different to the same file in /windows/system32/. I copied one and pasted it in the other to make them match. Apparently they can have a mismatch of different times or something and that makes them fail.

You could try that.

Or simply delete the FLI install and reinstall the FLI driver install freshly.

Starlight Express had me stumped a few months ago. I spent hours trying to get my Trius to run on my Wins 7 laptop (I run XP on my home observatory computer).

I used their latest driver install program to no avail. I then used an older 64 bit driver which worked. So their latest driver install is bugged.

I don't think that is the case with FLI though, their software now seems stable.

Try the above before assuming its a cable (it could be a cable though).

On Sat night I used a different cable for my STi guider. It was working fine. I sat through the first download and it looked sensational. Great.

As soon as I walked out the door the cable must have failed and the STi stopped working. The next morning the whole image run had failed. I was so excited by the quality of the subs. They were outstanding.

Meh - patience is required with this technical hobby as equipment gremlins are common. USB hubs seem particularly sensitive and prone to failure. I think also the sequence of start up is vital. I always turn my computer on and let it boot up before I power up any devices.

One possible source of sudden failures is the computer turned off suddenly without going through the shutdown tediously slow routine.

Greg.
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Old 21-05-2015, 01:05 AM
ericwbenson (Eric)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Oh the dreaded "Unknown Device" message.

All too familiar.

If the Proline is loading fine on someone else's laptop then the cables are likely fine? I find this sort of problem is usually the driver not loading or the computer not reading the camera for some reason.
He was using his own cable, hence why I it might be the cable that is strapped to the scope that is the problem (I hope since that is easy to fix).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
I see it all the time even with a "stable" setup.
Jeez, I hope I don't see it all the time with my very remote setup, now you have me worried!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Sometimes I need to power off the cam, turn off the computer and turn it back on then power up the cam.
Done this multiple times, e.g. left the computer and cam off for 6-8 hours etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
What fixed it was the flilib.dll (I think that's it name) file in CCDsoft was different to the same file in /windows/system32/. I copied one and pasted it in the other to make them match. Apparently they can have a mismatch of different times or something and that makes them fail.
Hmmm, "unknown device" is a kernel level driver issue from what I can tell (i.e. fliusb32.sys not being loaded because the PNP manager can't id the camera), no application level DLLs are involved at that point, so I don't believe that is relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Or simply delete the FLI install and reinstall the FLI driver install freshly.
Tried that a few times...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
On Sat night I used a different cable for my STi guider. It was working fine. I sat through the first download and it looked sensational. Great.

As soon as I walked out the door the cable must have failed and the STi stopped working. The next morning the whole image run had failed. I was so excited by the quality of the subs. They were outstanding.

Meh - patience is required with this technical hobby as equipment gremlins are common. USB hubs seem particularly sensitive and prone to failure. I think also the sequence of start up is vital. I always turn my computer on and let it boot up before I power up any devices.
USB is the bane of our (amateur astronomers) existence, it was never designed for reliable, constant connections that might be in a cold/hot environment, but that 's all there is...ugh.

Thx for sharing your thoughts,
EB
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Old 22-05-2015, 12:36 PM
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Well with some luck especially if its been working before then hopefully a simple cable replacement will do the trick.

Have you tried the new Hardware wizard and reloaded it that way?

Greg.
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