??? How does a USD $4,200 scope possibly cost AUD $9,000 here?

[g__day (Matthew)]

This one really puzzles me. I asked Lee at Andrews communications what is the price of a C11 + CGE mount and tripod. Lee can do it for $8,850 (Lee is a good guy)

Interestingly too the complete package of Celestron 11" OTA + CGE mount + Tripod is between USD $3,800 - $4,400 as a retail purchaser from most sites (let alone a dealers discounted buy price)!

As this translates to AUD retail of below $5,945 less US taxes + $300 Fedex + applicable duties, I'm surprised the complete setup I wish for could be imported for well under $6,000 by a private buyer but costs close to $9,000 from a great Australian distributor!

What causes the $3,000 mark-up? Look at

http://celestron.telescopes.com/products/...

Celestron CGE 1100 Schmidt-Cassegrain with StarBright XLT Co sku: 11061-XLT <SCRIPT language=javascript> <!-- prodPrice = 4424.00; prodDiscountPrice = 4424.00; if(blockedReferrer .search('overstock.php') >= 0 && prodPrice > prodDiscountPrice){ document.write('<span style="text-decoration:line-through">'); } --> </SCRIPT> <FOOPRICE>$4424.00 (MSRP:$8647.95 - 48.85% savings)</FOOPRICE> <FOOAVAIL>IN STOCK - Ships Immediately.

or

http://www.opticsplanet.net/celestron-cge-1100-telescope.html

Product Code: CI-TS-CGE1100 Regular price: <STRIKE>$8,097.95 </STRIKE>Sale price: $4,299.00

Its surprising how much mark up there is that seem to go way beyond typical USA retail prices adjusted for Aussie dollar + import costs and sales duties!

* * *

What is going on here anyone?

[cjmarsh81]

Greed.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

US listed prices are exclusive of their state taxes.
Apart from customs duties payable there is also the gst to add and the likelihood that an international dealer price would be higher than for a US dealer due to high cost of warranty returns.

Then there is also greed .
Aus price of 50% over US price is typical.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Perhaps also middle men, an Australian importer somewhere in the chain, syphoning off a large percentage of the RRP.

[Striker (Tony)]

Importing such a large item is risky.....imagine if their was a problem...the cost on sending the item back then return freight would be extreme....probably $500AUD each way...ouch.

Also throw in a 3% paypal fees if thats how you may pay.

But yes their is money to save but this comes with risk.

[Gama]

Actually, the delivery is not correct if shipped by air. Try around $800.00 plus for air. Remeber, its not just weight, but also by size as well.
Also add to this your GST, and remember that you also pay GST on the delivery as well.
This equates to $5946+$800=$6746, add 10% GST plus Customs handling which adds another $800.00, now comes to $7546.
Thats landed in Australia, then add local delivery to your door etc.. had a final cost of about $7600.00.
Next is of course profit, which also includes warranty, which could be anything...
So in the end, its not a huge profit, unless the scope stays perfect for its warranty period, then its pure profit.
Its a gamble with warranty, as freight costs are really expensive. This is the gamble they take. Sometimes they win, sometimes they loose.
I was tossing in either buying local or ordering my scope from U.S.. but in the end i ordered locally after i did the math. I paid about $1,500 more than i would have wanted too, but with freight for my scope at around $1000.00 plus its complexity (RCX-400) it wasnt worth the risk.
Already its worth the trouble, as i had to get a new hand controller.
Finally, the main worth is the SUPPORT you have locally, and they (Dealer) would normally help out as best and many times you need.
Think of it as insurance, wich also costs too much !!!.

[netwolf]

I would assume the low demand in Australia for Telescopes is cause for the higer margin. Importers need to make more return on fewer sales. US from what i have heard is very competitive due to the higher demand there for scopes. I have been to Bintel several times and Andrews once, and I often wonder of the number of scoeps on display how many are sold per month. Unless there is a large increase in demand i dont see the prices coming down. I myself have posted before of the huge price diffrence, but i do understand its a buisness not a chairity. And behind this buisness are people just like us who need to support there families. So i dont belive its just greed, i dont think that is a fair comment. The few if any are the exception rather than the rule.

One option is to start ATM groups that share workshops/tools and materials. I know certain Astronomy clubs in US do this. If we could share and learn and make our own we could reduce the cost, and add another aspect to the hobby.

Regards

[mickoking]

It is supply and demand and the size of our market. The Australian market is a lot smaller therefore something as esoteric as the C11 with the options mentioned will have an extremely small demand hence the price ( plus the middleman ??). With the more popular telescopes like the GSO's the price's in Australia are quite competitive to those in the US. This certainly wasn't the case 10 years ago.

[g__day (Matthew)]

I expect a retailer to make around 10% profit, still seems like alot in the margins!

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Agree totally Gama.

My recent experience of importing a G11 is the perfect example. Delivery alone was $424 US and you do have to pay GST on that I ended up saving only about $250 Aus in the end, I think I worked it out to be. Hardly worth the effort but an interesting exercise none the less.

If its a big item with warranty considerations....FWIW IMHO Get it in Australia.

[Vermin (Tom)]

Yep I looked at importing a GM8 but decided that the amount saved would not be worth the hassle and warranty risk.

My Tele Vue TV101 was a different mater however. I saved a considerable amount when a local retailer refused to budge on price. I was not after a price match as the local warranty has a value, but no, he was not interested. So he lost the sale and I imported it myself.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

$8850 is not a bad price. Consider:

US price: $US4400
Postage: $US300
US-AUD Conversion rate: $US0.73/$AU1 (you will never get the full current market rate, because banks/paypal will always skim)
Customs duty (on item only): 5%
GST (on everything incl customs duty): 10%

So that is
(4400/0.73 * 1.05 + 300/0.73) * 1.10 = $AU7413

But postage and insurance will probably cost more than $US300. And there will likely be paypal markup and/or bank fees.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Considerably more than US $300 postage Steve. I nearly choked when I read the email with the price.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Lee of Andrews rather helpfully responded that he doesn't source his gear from the USA, but on those deals I linked to Lee said $7,000 landed would be a decent rate covering all overheads - still a $2,000 saving, from Andrews price vs $9,535 from Astronomy Online - showing a $2,500 mark up!

[Robert_T]

Originally Posted by g__day

Lee of Andrews rather helpfully responded that he doesn't source his gear from the USA, but on those deals I linked to Lee said $7,000 landed would be a decent rate covering all overheads - still a $2,000 saving, from Andrews price vs $9,535 from Astronomy Online - showing a $2,500 mark up!

Yeh. I think Extra Vision is the sole Australian importer of celestron, they supply lee and York.

cheers,

[Dan31415]

Originally Posted by g__day

Lee of Andrews rather helpfully responded that he doesn't source his gear from the USA, but on those deals I linked to Lee said $7,000 landed would be a decent rate covering all overheads - still a $2,000 saving, from Andrews price vs $9,535 from Astronomy Online - showing a $2,500 mark up!

As an economist , the reason they charge higher prices is quite simply because they can. The market for selling telescope is far from competitive and there is not particularly good information - by this I mean that people in the market are not aware of all the prices and products that are in the market. Although forums like this one create better information for consumers. If everyone was aware that one shop is generally more expensive than another people will stop shopping there and prices will eventually come down or they will go out of business. On top of this very simple analysis there are other dimensions such as buying power which may reduce costs, market share etc...

A classic example was that I was not aware that myastroshop sold 8 inch dobs for $440 with shipping for $25 until I was advised on one of the forums, now if Andrews can't do a similar deal I will buy from myastroshop, eventually if all 8 inch dob purchasers faced a similar choice set prices will eventually adjusts to similar levels (if there are enough consumers etc..)

Dan

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by Dan31415

If everyone was aware that one shop is generally more expensive than another people will stop shopping there and prices will eventually come down or they will go out of business.

I think we have seen this with certain Sydney stores.
One has lowered their prices to keep up with an agressive competitor, with another closing their doors.

i would like to think IIS has played a role in keeping the astro shops honest in their pricing

[iceman (Mike)]

Guys,

Just a reminder to be careful when discussing Australian vendors, especially when making broad generalising statements like "greedy" etc. There are forum guidelines for discussing vendors, and several comments in this thread run very close to the line.

Unless you have specific information it's best not to assume or generalise - i'm quite sure some Australian vendors would take offence to some of these statements.

Some comments in this thread have made very valid points about why the price difference exists, and local advice, service and support are 3 main factors. Australian vendors have to pay staff, superannuation, taxes etc. And then try and make a profit in what is a very small Australian astronomy market (compared to the US).

It's also important to remember that some Australian vendors have been very generous in their sponsorship of star parties and other competitions around Australia for many years - supporting the Australian amateur astronomy community. That's hardly greedy, is it?

Anyway, my point is, please be careful when discussing vendors - making broad general statements are a bad idea and have the potential to land people in trouble.

[acropolite (Phil)]

If you look at the local prices for Meade Scopes and accessories there is only the difference that you would expect and in some cases the difference swings in favour of the Australian reseller, so IMO there is no justification for the enormous disparity in the C11 prices. Australian importers/dealers don't buy at US RRP and although there is GST and perhaps customs duty the formula should still hold true, i.e. If Meade resellers can sell for comparable $AU prices to US dealers why can't Celestron??

[astropolak (Joe)]

Hi
I thought I will add my 2 cents here.
Please do not forget that some of the local retailers actually have shop fronts.
Yes Iceman - those are the sponsors of this web site. As such I do not mind them to make a bit of profit to coved their high expenses. Others have no shop front and operate on smaller margins and often even are better to deal with. Others still told me to my eyes that they are not interested in showing me "all the eyepieces in the shop" as they are interested in pushing stuff out the door. This particular retailer has a shop front (actually I would call it a shack) and has not one item on display of any quality - but offers to sell you any Celestron product at a discount....

Give me Frontier Optics any time...., or perhaps Bintel if that fails !
RGDS Joe