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Old 22-02-2020, 03:51 PM
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Limp Mode error Code P0299 Under/Over Boost problem and how to fix the problem??

Hi Guys.

Maybe a question for the experienced mechanics out there or some one who may have had the same problem.

Late 2014 Colorado LTZ 2.8 Turbo, on two occasions has gone into Limp Mode whilst working hard towing a Caravan up a long/steep gradual incline on the Hume Highway.

Once it is stopped and re/started all is well and keeps on towing with no apparent issues.

This happened twice on a long trip and also happened twice or three times a couple of years back.

The rig starts to clime the gradient and shifts back in the gears, the temp goes to about half, and the REV's hit about 3500, it is at this point it loses power and goes to limp mode.

OKI know what it all means and why it is doing it, to save the engine i expect but how dose one remedy the problem, other than those incidences, it never misses a beat and tows it heart out very comfortably.

Holden tells me little and say bring it in and we will charge you $100.00 to tell me what i already expect to be the issue a Over/Under Boost causing Limp Mode and a P0299 Code in the Computer, which happens to be the code for pressure in the turbo charger and/or exhaust pressure.

I had this situation once in my IVECO and it turned out no one had bothered to check the sensor relating to this particular situation when servicing, and never cleaned the sensor, and once that was done it never happened again.

So here we are any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Leon
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Old 22-02-2020, 05:05 PM
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Hi Leon,

Mechanic of nearly 20 years.

My first port of call would be a charge air leak in one of the rubber hoses either from the turbo to the intercooler or intercooler to induction. What general happens is they get a split. To computer knows approximately what boost pressure it should be achieving given throttle demand, engine RPM and wastegate position and if it doesn’t see a measurement within that range from your boost pressure sensor it will enter a limp mode as you correctly stated to protect the engine. This can happen more often when you have more weight in the vehicle or are towing because the boost is held on for longer as the vehicle acceleration is slower. This gives the computer enough time to evaluate the difference. Under normal driving it doesn’t mind the small discrepancies it sees and treats them as acceptable. Either that or the split isn’t big enough to leak enough charge air for the short bursts of acceleration for the computer to recognize the fault.

Hope this helps
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Old 22-02-2020, 05:49 PM
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I concur with Ryan, was gonna suggest a small vacuum/air leak somewhere
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Old 22-02-2020, 07:26 PM
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Thank You Ryan,

I appreciate your response, however you mention a very minute split in either of the hoses could be the problems.

This may be so , but how would one find this minute split if at all, as a large amount of pressure is needed for it to fail, or could this be found by general thorough inspection.

I will lift the bonnet tomorrow and see what maybe hiding under there, thank you again, at least you have given an answer to my question which Holden cannot do.

Leon
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Old 22-02-2020, 07:35 PM
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......or possibly small leak/crack in intercooler.

Hardworking engine equals heat which in turn causes metal expansion.

Had the issue on a Nissan patrol
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Old 22-02-2020, 08:22 PM
Ukastronomer (Jeremy)
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Once it is stopped and re/started all is well and keeps on towing with no apparent issues.

Same here last week, Renault Grand Scenic, happens occasionally to many people
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Old 22-02-2020, 10:44 PM
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You're welcome Leon.

There's one way to check it without " equipment " but you have to be careful. I can't stress that enough. Position the vehicle in such a way that if it moves forward, it isn't going to run into anything or anyone. Put the pop the bonnet and position yourself down either side but NOT in front of the vehicle. Have someone else sit inside with the engine running. Apply the handbrake firmly. Place the vehicle in drive with foot firmly on the brakes. Maintaining good brake pressure, gently apply the throttle with the other foot. The vehicle will " stall up ". You'll be able to hear the boost build up from the turbocharger and if there is a leak in a hose or inter cooler you will be able to hear it whistling. Don't build the revs up too high, 2000 rpm should be plenty and don't do it for too long. Maximum 5-6 secs at a time. Allow 10sec or so between attempts to allow the torque converter and transmission clutches to cool.

This should only be carried out by yourself and someone you trust to follow the instructions as it isn't the safest thing to do without experience.

Have a visual inspection of all the hoses first before you attempt it too. No need to take risks if you can see the problem first.

Hope this helps and stay safe.
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Old 23-02-2020, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanJones View Post
You're welcome Leon.

There's one way to check it without " equipment " but you have to be careful. I can't stress that enough. Position the vehicle in such a way that if it moves forward, it isn't going to run into anything or anyone. Put the pop the bonnet and position yourself down either side but NOT in front of the vehicle. Have someone else sit inside with the engine running. Apply the handbrake firmly. Place the vehicle in drive with foot firmly on the brakes. Maintaining good brake pressure, gently apply the throttle with the other foot. The vehicle will " stall up ". You'll be able to hear the boost build up from the turbocharger and if there is a leak in a hose or inter cooler you will be able to hear it whistling. Don't build the revs up too high, 2000 rpm should be plenty and don't do it for too long. Maximum 5-6 secs at a time. Allow 10sec or so between attempts to allow the torque converter and transmission clutches to cool.

This should only be carried out by yourself and someone you trust to follow the instructions as it isn't the safest thing to do without experience.

Have a visual inspection of all the hoses first before you attempt it too. No need to take risks if you can see the problem first.

Hope this helps and stay safe.
Don't try on a car without a mechanical handbrake
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Old 23-02-2020, 06:16 AM
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Leon, here is what I know from direct experience with that engine. The 2.8L CRD used in the Colorado is almost identical to the VM Motori 2.8L used in the Jeep Cherokee for many years, and I owned one for over a decade. VM Motori was at one time part owned by GM, and licensed the engine to be used in other branded vehicles as well. I am a long serving (13 years) moderator on the Ausjeep forum and have dealt with this question there many times. The Colorado engine uses the exact same engine management system and sensors. So what you describe happening is exactly what the engine management system is programmed to do. Normal operation will see the temperature sit just below half way on the gauge. In situations where the heat rises the system starts to shutdown things in an attempt to reduce heat, and by the time it reaches 3/4 It puts the engine in limp mode to protect it. All normal behaviour.
This happened to me a couple of times in my Jeep variant, and here is how to avoid it.
Use an appropriate gear, the torque band for that engine peaks at 1800-2400 rpm, stay in that range, over reving the engine does nothing to help you but it does burn alot more fuel and this raises engine temperature even more.
When climbing hills, stay out of over drive mode, accept you may need to slow down, and stay in the torque band sweet spot.
Be aware that using the air conditioner actually adds heat to the engine, it is because the air con condensor sits in front of the intercooler and radiator, and it's waste heat adds heat to the intake air and the radiator.
One of the things the engine management system will do to reduce heat is to shut down the AC system at the 3/4 heat mark, for the reason I just mentioned.
Consider adding an EGT gauge, or Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge, this will allow you to monitor over fueling heat build up and you can program in alert points to remind you to back off the throttle. Where you insert the EGT probe matters, I recommend it be tapped into the exhaust manifold just above the turbo downpipe (pre-turbo), a good diesel mechanic can do this for you quickly or you can do it yourself if you have some basic mechanical ability. You can buy EGT gauges from places like ProSport gauges online.
I hope that helps. Chances are your engine is fine, but you need to know how to drive it correctly to get the best out of it. All to often I see people drive diesels like they would a petrol car, and it destroys them pretty quickly - more REVS is never an answer with a CRD.
There are some other heat sources you could also look at, like the transmission cooler. If you want to discuss in more detail then just PM me here and we can talk about it on the phone.
Good luck

Last edited by glend; 23-02-2020 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 23-02-2020, 11:01 AM
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I have always aimed under load (Such as hills) at keeping the engine in between peak torque and peak power RPM, roughly midway between the two although for a lot of oilers that is not saying a lot as they have quite a low power peak RPM. Looking at the COlerados specs that would put it about 2750RPM. It probably does not have closed loop boost control so it may well be simply going into an overboost situation given a combination of high load and high RPM (Given the boost related code)

I would first do as Glen suggests, manually select a gear that keeps it between 2500 and 3000RPM and if you have to, kill the cruise control and let the speed trail off a bit if that is what it takes to keep it out of limp home.

Last edited by The_bluester; 23-02-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 23-02-2020, 02:01 PM
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Wow you guys have been so helpful, thank you very much indeed.

I will re/read all your responses and work from there, plenty to absorb and think about.

Paul, prior to this happening I have found the sweet spot for towing with my rig and usually drive it that way.

It usually sits on about 2600 RPM, not in cruise control and a selected gear that gives good torque up and down dale, so to speak, and it stays relatively cool, well below half temp.

I have to admit on this occasion i was on the Hume, in cruise control and going a little faster than probably should have been which was fine on the long open flat stuff, until the big hill happened.

So from now on I will drive it a bit more sparingly and keep the speed down a bit and travel like i usually do anyway.

Thanks again for all your help.

Leon
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Old 23-02-2020, 03:36 PM
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Was it on that loooooong incline near Benalla? That would be quite a test of a cooling system.
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Old 23-02-2020, 06:11 PM
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Paul, not quite sure of the location, but yes, it was not long out of Benalla on the road to Gundagi.

Bloody hell i will start singing soon.

Leon
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Old 26-02-2020, 03:10 PM
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Having had my share of diesel automotive problems for the past 2 months, and knowing Ford Australia is a bunch of clueless cretins who solely rely on a computer diagnostic tool and no actual mechanical skills, I'd say sell the bloody thing and buy a reputable brand like Toyota.

Ford had my car for one month. Claimed it was the PCM. It wasn't - but still $2500. Then said it was injectors...which it wasn't after $4000 (but getting a refund of $2500 for the incorrect PCM replacement). After one month, they shrugged their shoulders.

Yesterday took it to a transmission shop who changed my ATF. Still pink (after NOT having been changed in 127,000 km) and very little in the filter - no swarf, no "glitter". Now it drives absolutely perfectly with no shudder between 2nd and 3rd as before (which Ford said was a PCM and injector issue because of the P0176D-II code). Cost was $560 for a full flush and filter change (these are a wet clutch transmission, so no torque converter). Whilst I am pi$$ed at Ford, I must say for a transmission that has - by my fault/sheer absent-mindedness - missed not 1 but 2 60,000km transmission fluid changes that for it to have held up and still be reasonably non-affected is marvellous testimony to Peugeot (see, French do make good things). I drove the car 82,000km last year alone!

Ford Corporate (Aust.) has now been informed of the behaviour of Ford here, and we will see what happens. They owe me a LOT of explanations and MONEY (more involved than just the parts being a work car)

I feel a Toyota or Honda in my future...
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Old 26-02-2020, 05:38 PM
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Bloody hell Lewis that is incredible but I know what you are talking about.

Holden are no better and just don't do stuff they are suppose to when servicing.

I was actually told by a ex service manager don't bring your car in on a Monday because the trainees that work on your car are sill pissed from the weekend and things just don't get done.

Also don't bring it in on Friday as they wont do stuff because they want to get away as soon as possible to start the weekend.

I believe it too, the stuff they failed to do on my car was just wrong but nobody wanted to own up to the mistakes, so now i do my own services and save heaps of dollars and i know the job has actually been done.

There just is now quality control anymore

Leon
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Old 26-02-2020, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leon View Post

There just is now quality control anymore

Leon
“Now” quality control is still better than never tho...
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Old 27-02-2020, 01:45 PM
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Opps it was supposed to be No

Leon
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Old 28-02-2020, 06:05 AM
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I’m with Lewis here. Can’t beat a Toyota. We have had many brands at work and the Toyota’s are the only ones that haven’t had to go in for repairs. All our 4x4 fleet are Toyota’s now.
My hilux has just clicked over 100k in the past year of driving and is still perfect. Only ever has its regular service.
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