Waste of life and potential

[BPO]

Nobody really seems to care unless the condemned is "one of ours."

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Also Corbi, The drugs were found in a bag And not on her body and it was considered that it was possible that it was a set up. That was considered to be the reason why there was so much opposition in that particular case as that was considered that baggage handlers were culpable in the importation of drugs. The case was quite strange because it is not economic all to import drugs into Indonesia instead only export drugs out of Indonesia.

The sad bit about this case was that the AFP could have helped Corby try to prove her inocence but "it is not a part of their job to help people to prove their inocence" so they didn't.

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

I am not familiar with Indonesian customs but it seems that an appeal is treated almost as an insult to the Judges' ruling and can often result in a harsher sentence should the appeal have no merit.

That can occur here in Australia too. An appeal is a request to reconsider the outcome. Sometimes (though rarely) it does result in a heavier penalty.

[Neutronstar (T)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Also Corbi, The drugs were found in a bag And not on her body and it was considered that it was possible that it was a set up. That was considered to be the reason why there was so much opposition in that particular case as that was considered that baggage handlers were culpable in the importation of drugs. The case was quite strange because it is not economic all to import drugs into Indonesia instead only export drugs out of Indonesia.

There is so much controversy over the ban Bali holiday movement right now, its taken over.

This above, is why I will never step foot in that country. Do you want to risk that someone else may do the wrong thing implicating you, in a country with no mercy? No thanks. There are plenty of other places to go where I'd expect a better chance of a fair trial.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by doppler

The sad bit about this case was that the AFP could have helped Corby try to prove her inocence but "it is not a part of their job to help people to prove their inocence" so they didn't.

Innocence and Corby are not words I would ever associate together.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by Neutronstar

There is so much controversy over the ban Bali holiday movement right now, its taken over.

This above, is why I will never step foot in that country. Do you want to risk that someone else may do the wrong thing implicating you, in a country with no mercy? No thanks. There are plenty of other places to go where I'd expect a better chance of a fair trial.

I would avoid Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand for starters if this is your rationale.

Simple measures avoid these possibilities. Padlocked luggage, luggage wrapped with specific tape that will show being cut/opened, "cling wrapped" baggage, or even luggage tagged as having been inspected at departure

[Rob_K]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Simple measures avoid these possibilities. Padlocked luggage, luggage wrapped with specific tape that will show being cut/opened, "cling wrapped" baggage, or even luggage tagged as having been inspected at departure

Pardon my cynicism but the scenario of drug smugglers secreting their million dollar packages in innocent travellers' luggage and hoping on a roll of the dice and a thousand different variables that they can successfully recover them after arrival borders on the preposterous.

But it's a great defence if you get caught because doubt creates at least something that can be leveraged. And because it has been claimed so many times, it has gained a certain popular currency. Locking and securing your luggage does help authorities in the war against drugs because if you do it and then get caught, you haven't got a leg to stand on. Hence the advisories.

Lock and secure your luggage by all means, but only to stop people taking things out, not putting them in.

Cheers -

[5ash (Philip)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

I don't think our pollies give a rat's about those two lads.
I suspect uncle Tony rubbed his hands with glee at the prospect of a media circus surrounding their execution knowing it would serve as an excellent way to deflect public attention away from domestic politics.

Contrast the rhetoric and outrage surrounding this issue with the level of compassion and understanding he candidly shows for our lads, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPmpswEJ-sg

It's certainly been a media circus that has polarised public opinion to such an extent that both sides of politics have had to get on the bandwagon . Shows how weak our politicians are . I don't agree with the death penalty , but another countries laws and culture are theirs not ours. We may try to change things with international pressure , going alone makes us offensive to the Indonesians and solves nothing. Also these men are criminals not the martyrs as they are becoming in some eyes.
Philip

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Pardon my cynicism but the scenario of drug smugglers secreting their million dollar packages in innocent travellers' luggage and hoping on a roll of the dice and a thousand different variables that they can successfully recover them after arrival borders on the preposterous.

But it's a great defence if you get caught because doubt creates at least something that can be leveraged. And because it has been claimed so many times, it has gained a certain popular currency. Locking and securing your luggage does help authorities in the war against drugs because if you do it and then get caught, you haven't got a leg to stand on. Hence the advisories.

Lock and secure your luggage by all means, but only to stop people taking things out, not putting them in.

Cheers -

Hence why Corby"s claims are so far fetched and ridiculous as to defy belief, but after
watching that whole charade over the years, the story may have been the most intelligible thing to come out of her or her families mouth.

Her father was caught with drugs more than once, her brother performed heinous crimes related to drugs, her sister has been photographed with MJ, her mother charged for MJ possession and one friend who used to visit her was part of a cartel. Hmmmmmmm

[Ausrock (Chris)]

Originally Posted by 5ash

It's certainly been a media circus that has polarised public opinion to such an extent that both sides of politics have had to get on the bandwagon . Shows how weak our politicians are . I don't agree with the death penalty , but another countries laws and culture are theirs not ours. We may try to change things with international pressure , going alone makes us offensive to the Indonesians and solves nothing. Also these men are criminals not the martyrs as they are becoming in some eyes.
Philip

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Hence why Corby"s claims are so far fetched and ridiculous as to defy belief, but after
watching that whole charade over the years, the story may have been the most intelligible thing to come out of her or her families mouth.

Her father was caught with drugs more than once, her brother performed heinous crimes related to drugs, her sister has been photographed with MJ, her mother charged for MJ possession and one friend who used to visit her was part of a cartel. Hmmmmmmm

Drug smugglers are out to make money? The value of the drugs in Australia would have been around $35,000 and in Bali around $5,000. So, who in their right mind would take a chance on receiving a death sentence, or a life sentence in a third world prison, just to lose $30,000?

No one would, which is why marijuana has never been taken to Bali from Australia before, or since. Indeed, if the drugs in her bag really did come from Australia, the event is unique in the histories of both Australia and Indonesia. Quite simply, there is no Australian marijuana on Bali's streets. There never has been, and probably never will be. Even one of the Indonesian judges thought she was set up.

As for her family, they are a surfie family so you would expect a bit of "soft drug" use/dealings ? I think Corby's case was a trial by media like that of Lindy Chamberlain.

As for the Bali 9 I think that they should have been extradited to Australia to face their crimes which were directed against Australia.

[clive milne]

Honestly answer this simple question:

To what extent has the legal status of any substance influenced your choice to either take or not take it?

A recent study by the UK government across a number of countries has confirmed that there is zero correlation between the severity of drug laws and the use of drugs in those countries.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29824764

Two interesting examples stand out. Since Sweden toughened its drug laws, the consumption of drugs in that country has increased. Portugal on the other hand, decriminalized the possession of all drugs (even heroin) and now has a lower consumption of drugs amongst its population than before.

I think any rational attempt to understand the problems associated with drugs, (assuming the intent is to minimise the damage they do to society) must make a clear distinction between the harm that the drugs actually do and the harm that is done by attempting to police the issue. ie) the billions spent on law enforcement and the creation, enrichment & empowerment of criminals.

The war on drugs has not resulted in any tangible benefit to society but has come at an extraordinary cost.
By any metric I can think of it is an abject failure, so why not consider the words of Albert Einstein:


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[doppler (Rick)]

People will always take drugs, this has been going on for centuries, so the logical answer is to make softer less adictive drugs more easily available to lure people away from the dark side . The bad guys like prohabition because they then they have full control of what they want to sell. Education not enforcement is the real key to long term health.

[04Stefan07 (Stefan)]

Originally Posted by BPO

Or... Don't traffic illegal narcotics in countries with death penalties for such offenses. We demand foreigners respect our own laws whenever they visit.

I totally agree with you mate. It was their own fault to begin with. They knew the consequences and risked being caught which they were. Imagine what would have happened if they weren't caught.

Whenever these two people popped up in the news I could not stand hearing about them anymore. Respect the laws of other countries and we won't have this problem. The media tried to make them look like heroes and one of the national papers labeled them as "brave". Brave? Excuse me? They were two criminals! There was a random caller on a local radio station who called up and said they could not sleep because of this. It makes me sick, people didn't realise they were criminals.

I bet Australian's won't like it if other countries tell us how to conduct our own laws?

I wonder how this would have panned out if they weren't from Australia? It would definitely not be major headlines, just a mere footnote in the newspaper.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Honestly answer this simple question:

To what extent has the legal status of any substance influenced your choice to either take or not take it?

A recent study by the UK government across a number of countries has confirmed that there is zero correlation between the severity of drug laws and the use of drugs in those countries.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29824764

Two interesting examples stand out. Since Sweden toughened its drug laws, the consumption of drugs in that country has increased. Portugal on the other hand, decriminalized the possession of all drugs (even heroin) and now has a lower consumption of drugs amongst its population than before.

I think any rational attempt to understand the problems associated with drugs, (assuming the intent is to minimise the damage they do to society) must make a clear distinction between the harm that the drugs actually do and the harm that is done by attempting to police the issue. ie) the billions spent on law enforcement and the creation, enrichment & empowerment of criminals.

The war on drugs has not resulted in any tangible benefit to society but has come at an extraordinary cost.
By any metric I can think of it is an abject failure, so why not consider the words of Albert Einstein:


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I believe that in Australia the consumption of legal drugs is decreasing while the consumption of illegal drugs is increasing.

When considering the harm drugs do you need to consider not just the drug but also the circumstances under which it is consumed. There is a huge difference between a well fed person consuming too much booze in their home and then sleeping in a warm bed and a homeless person, who has been dumpster diving for dinner, drinking the same amount and then sleeping in the local park. And if it's metho they drink the problems are far far worse. Similarly there have been numerous rock stars (and presumably other wealthy people who fly under the radar) who have had a major addiction for years, even decades, and have managed to stay relatively healthy. They have been able to afford pure heroin and clean needles while still being well fed and housed. Of course they would be better off without the drugs but they don't go downhill nearly as quick as the addicts in your local slum. If harm minimization is the aim this is a real consideration.

[Ausrock (Chris)]

The unfortunate and usually unpublicised fact is that the long term physical effects of drugs like MJ and heroin are quite different........a heroin addict who manages to "rehabilitate" has the opportunity of having a normal life ahead of them.......while they're addicted to the drug, it does not cause irreparable damage.

On the other hand, an MJ addict will always have to live with the fact that their habit has been destroying brain cells which will never regenerate.........the damage they are causing is permanent.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by mr bruess

Going back as far as the Balibo five it seems to me that Indonesia has never been a particularly good neighbour or friend. Once again they've proven themselves immature, spiteful and petulent.

I disagree with this assessment mr bruess

I dont see a whole lot difference between Australia and Indonesia as global citizens.

[blink138 (Pat)]

i had something posted on my facebook page from a friend and apparently some journo in the east has declared "bringing our boys home" in relation to the drug smugglers bodies, which, of course such a phrase is reserved for our troops!
he was not a happy chappie let me tell you!
pat

[LewisM]

10 years ago, the media roared to execute them else they kill our children...

10 years later Indonesia does just so and now the media is outraged.

I am constantly reminded why I refuse to watch TV news or internet reports let alone read a newspaper.

I am glad to see the greater majority here are not sheeple.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Fair call about the media. But if you don't watch TV news or internet reports and don't read papers where do you get your info?

BTW I used to complain long and hard about our local paper, then we started getting the Tele delivered free to the lunch room. Man oh man, that thing would rot your brain. I once comment to an American college that Rupert is now 'one of yours'. He offered to return him. I declined.