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Old 08-11-2019, 02:24 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Green wall

Hi guys, I'm working on insulating my house a little better working out different strategies. One of them is to use green walls, ivy type stuff on wires or lattice/mesh. The thinking is to mask the large surface of brick walls I have on my house from direct sunlight and try to keep the brick work as cool as I possibly can. So I need something that is going to grow relatively fast then withstand full sunlight and some heat and finally require a reasonable amount of water. I don't really care if it needs trimming often. I can live with that. I'd rather be cooler indoors.

So I did a bit of reading. There's one called star jasmine. It needs wires to grow and supposed to be hardy. The other one is the creeping fig. That one sounds like a pack of piranas. It attaches to the brickwork directly and it's dense.

So I'm asking if any of you guys have had experience in using green walls for brickwork insulation, any recommendation on what to do and what to avoid, etc...

I'm in Sydney west. It rains occasionally, gets bloody hot in summer. Well I guess a bit like everywhere nowadays. We don't get frost as such. Haven't had any in a while anyway. It can get pretty windy at times but nothing like closer to the city. We do get hail at times but nothing more that 10mm balls. Nothing really. We got lucky this year compared to other areas.

Thanks for any tips.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:13 PM
Gary47 (Gary)
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Hi Marc.
At all costs avoid Ivy and Wisteria. The Ivy you will never get rid of and the roots against the wall can dry out in hot weather to form a fire conducting under layer.
Leave a Wisteria alone for a few years and while you are admiring its magnificent blossom displays and luxuriant foliage it's roots will be having your foundations out and the runners will rape your insect screens and conduct a forced entry through the windows.
Regards
Gary
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:18 PM
Wavytone
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Best is trachelospermum - native jasmine. It needs support to climb - lattice or wires are fine - and won’t damage walls or paint. Evergreen with shiny deep green leaves, likes sun and is tough.

It’s a bit late to start but keep the water up to it for a month and it will grow fast - you could have some cover by January. The tendrils are capable of 0.5 metre per day in early spring with rain.

After rain it usually flowers -little white stars, which give a nice perfume in the evenings.

Only thing to note is that it needs a haircut 2-3 times a year - cut off the straggly bits to keep it looking good.

If you change your mind it’s easily removed no issues.

In addition it sounds like you could use a few trees for long term shade but they take longer.

Last edited by Wavytone; 08-11-2019 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:06 AM
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We had star jasmine growing on the fence around the pool in full sun for many years. It does what you are looking for however it needs a trim to keep it looking good. You need to protect yourself from the white sap during pruning as it causes an alergic skin reaction.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:06 AM
Wilso
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Hi Marc,
I’ve worked on some really nice houses over the years. The best one I’ve seen was the creeping fig. It will take a few yrs to cover and you’ll have to keep it trimmed flat against the wall to look the best. 2nd one was a creeping ivy, larger leaf, fast growing so you’ll have to keep this one contained by regular trimming.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:41 AM
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Rainmaker (Matt)
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My brother-in-law recently had their house repainted, the biggest cost was the removal of a massive amount of creeper that had been allowed to go wild. It had made its way into every mortar join, under the fascia and barge boards, even entwined the whole timber structure under the roof tiles causing the pointing to crumble.....

I had the same issue with our house being very hot as the render was a dark green/grey and would become too hot to touch in the summer sun...

My solution is picture below.....
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_4059 View Post
We had star jasmine growing on the fence around the pool in full sun for many years. It does what you are looking for however it needs a trim to keep it looking good. You need to protect yourself from the white sap during pruning as it causes an alergic skin reaction.
Actually it's dynamite for anyone with allergy issues. My father developed asthma in middle age and we had to have the jasmine removed from the front yard. Once it flowered Dad couldn't even go into the front yard, much less touch it.

Last edited by AstralTraveller; 11-11-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
...
My solution is picture below.....

That's a very nice job. Did you get the rainbow at Bunnings?
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:30 AM
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Some great answers and experiences to draw on. Thanks a lot for that.

I'm still thinking and there are a lot of good points I didn't really factor in.

For starters the Jasmine and allergies. Now I remember the stuff used to grow a bit above the neighbourg fence 25 years ago and for a couple of weeks my head was like a pressure cooker. So scrap that. But then again it's the most "wall friendly" kind... Ivy and creeping fig sound like an invasive species.

Then with all the fires we have up north and amber attacks I'm starting to ask myself is it really a good idea to cover the house with a layer of potential fuel.

Bummer!... I thought I had it all worked out for a sec there.

@Nick I had beautiful palm trees at the front. They became huge. The wind eventually got two and that scared the hell out of me. Also came to the point where nothing else would grow around, even the lawn. And the 2 to 3m long leaves were popping faster than I could trim them.
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:34 PM
Wilso
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I forgot to mention you could also espalier a fruit tree or two along there. They look very nice once done.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Then with all the fires we have up north and amber attacks I'm starting to ask myself is it really a good idea to cover the house with a layer of potential fuel.
This species of Star Jasmin (Trachelospermum jasminoides) is rated as OK:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botanic Gardens of South Australia
Note: Fire retardant plant as per SA Country Fire Service, contact for further information.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:04 PM
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At the risk of being seen as heretical, from a fire safety perspective we should be eliminating the hazard - and by that I mean the big gum tree forests.

If we don't do it in a controlled way fires will do it anyway - in an uncontrolled way. That is becoming quite clear now.

And FWIW there are plenty of other trees that will grow in this climate without posing a significant fire hazard - there is no reason to obsess about planting natives. At the rate Gunns managed to cover Tasmania in plantations it would take 30 years max to deal with the highest risk areas in Victoria, NSW and Queensland. The downside is having to kiss koalas bye-bye, and maybe a few other species though.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:14 AM
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Thanks again guys. Fair point Nick. We know we need more trees but on the other hand that's more fuel for the fires as conditions have changed. Can't win. I think it's too late now and we can't do much anyway.

Star jasmine looked like a great contender but that's going to kill me slowly. I need to breathe. I'm starting to lean more towards looking into a hardware solution now rather than an organic one. Maybe some cladding, see through mesh, create a gap between the cover and the brick wall that could act as a flue and circulate air. Gotta think a little harder at the problem. Also thought about tinting the windows. Do some test. It works for a car, why not for a house?

With the fire hazards and alert level on the east coast today it just reminded me to pick up all the dead leaves in the gutters and in the corners. I have to admit I'd be a little worried with a green wall. Stay safe in the blue mountains.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:07 AM
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There is a native grape which has no grapes, called Cissus Antarctica , which is good for shade on wires and trellis and lets the sun in in winter being decidous. Twining plants are good but those that bind on will ruin paint and brick, as they did my old brick office.

Dwarf Lilly Pilly are a low fire risk species which will hedge up to 3-4m and shade the wall while staying 1 m away and not risking termite ladders. Avoid any conifers or light weight exotic species which are like Roman candles.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:17 AM
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PS . Tinting windows will stop direct radiant heat but can heat up the glass and increase conductive heat , so it depends on the balance, and an Accredited NATHERS energy assessor can give you an exact answer to the whole house for few hundred dollars. Shade and internal thermal mass usually wins.

I am guessing you don’t want to replace the glass with Low E.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
There is a native grape which has no grapes, called Cissus Antarctica , which is good for shade on wires and trellis and lets the sun in in winter being decidous. Twining plants are good but those that bind on will ruin paint and brick, as they did my old brick office.

Dwarf Lilly Pilly are a low fire risk species which will hedge up to 3-4m and shade the wall while staying 1 m away and not risking termite ladders. Avoid any conifers or light weight exotic species which are like Roman candles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
PS . Tinting windows will stop direct radiant heat but can heat up the glass and increase conductive heat , so it depends on the balance, and an Accredited NATHERS energy assessor can give you an exact answer to the whole house for few hundred dollars. Shade and internal thermal mass usually wins.

I am guessing you don’t want to replace the glass with Low E.
Thanks for the additional info Ray. PMd.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Dwarf Lilly Pilly are a low fire risk species which will hedge up to 3-4m and shade the wall while staying 1 m away and not risking termite ladders. Avoid any conifers or light weight exotic species which are like Roman candles.

My Lilly Pillies also provide food for a ring-tailed possum, which I hear about the place while observing. However the term 'dwarf' is relative, they are naturally a rainforest giant. In my experience promises like 'only grows to XXX' is referring to the first two years - after that all bets are off. I keep my dwarf lilly pillies to about 4m with frequent pruning but it doesn't produce a beautiful plant.


There is a place around here that has hung shade cloth from the gutters to the ground on their brick western wall. I think it's a rental and it looks bog ugly but I presume it helps. Perhaps you could try something like that but keep it looking nice. I'm thinking of replacing the fly screen on one window with shade cloth. We never open that window and it lets in lots of afternoon heat, even with the blind closed.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:51 AM
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Cool - had a look at lilly pillies. Looks good. Will look into that too. I guess in the end it's going to be a combination of different things and compromises. Blinds idea is sound. I have a back veranda with 75% UV rated polycarbonate at the back and bistro blinds (light beige color). It certainly cuts direct sunlight and creates a buffer between wall/windows and the back both in winter and summer.
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Old 14-11-2019, 12:47 PM
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Before you go planting anything, especially trees, near your house ask someone who knows about potential root damage. I've had to remove a nice shade tree from the front yard as the roots had damaged the garden bed and were about to start on the foundations. All my lili pillies are >20m from the house.
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Old 26-11-2019, 10:32 AM
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Try tap root trees like pear... fast growing shady and pretty.
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