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Old 09-10-2019, 07:01 AM
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The end of CCD Astro

It was inevitable: https://qsimaging.com/news_updates/o...-announcement/

Interesting times for FLI, SBIG, SX, QSI, Moravian...I hope this won't have a long term detrimental impact on amateur astrophotography.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:42 AM
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I didn't expect that so soon.

There has been a trend towards CMOS as Sony left the CCD business a few years back.

I am not sure CMOS are at the same standard as CCD at this stage. Although there are a large number of excellent CMOS images shown on this site.

One area that is not at the same standard yet is size. Most of these CMOS sensors are quite small, around the KAF8300 or smaller sizes.

The QHY600 mono full frame 61mp sensor is the first of these full frame mono CMOS sensors. It will be interesting to see how they perform.
61mp may be a pain to process though. 102mb files.

Greg.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:22 AM
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I guess one of the lines of thought is that with something like the QHY600, you can always capture and full resolution and then bin it before working on anything. Or even just bin during capture if that is easier, it's what I would do with my Mewlon but that's when 2x2 binned gets me to 0.62"/pixel

With that though I'd have a 15mp BSI mono FF sensor with a QE peaking at near 90% and 7.52 micron pixels. Although it doesn't get the same SNR improvement with binning as a CCD it also doesn't have the high near noise which was the purpose of hardware binning anyway.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:37 AM
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Good point I hadn't considered the advantage of binning the 61mp sensor. Makes a lot of sense. We'll see examples of that camera in the coming months and we'll see if CMOS is going to be a viable alternative to CCD.

Greg.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:29 AM
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I do think it's sad, and a pity as from the direct comparisons I've seen, the ccd is still vastly superior to my ASI1600. I weep when I see the extra detail that I would never see. Haha, maybe you guys with ccds will start seeing their prices appreciate...
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:27 PM
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I think Sony will continue supplying their excellent but small ICX CCD sensors until 2026, so dinosaurs are not quite extinct yet
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawomir View Post
I think Sony will continue supplying their excellent but small ICX CCD sensors until 2026, so dinosaurs are not quite extinct yet
Its a shame Sony didn't bring out a larger ICX CCD, full frame.

But they have some outstanding sensors coming out.
I read about one just the other day, quite revolutionary.

So CMOS is going to have some very advanced sensors in the near future.
CCD on the other hand whilst great, seemed to be standing still as far as R and D goes. Like Beta and VHS video tapes. DSLR and Mirrorless and other examples. One tech rises to the top.

Greg.
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Old 12-10-2019, 09:42 PM
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Another big part of it comes down to profitability margin. The readout speeds of CMOS have made it a more versatile sensor for so many more applications. In the extreme high end of the professional market everything is custom built for specific applications. Then there is the lower end professional market which use the best fit for what's on the market at the time, much like us amateurs. The money for R&D follows the money which is in the DSLR market and applications that require the higher frame rate.
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Old 12-10-2019, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
.........
CCD on the other hand whilst great, seemed to be standing still as far as R and D goes......

Greg.
Not true IMHO. emCCD's are simply awesome. Ultra clean with single photon detection. Nothing on the CMOS front comes close.

So good in fact, there are DoD restrictions on their export from the USA.

The rub is the price...1k x 1k sensor cameras are around $100k...hardly amateur pricing.

P.S.
I lifted this from a recent UK Astronomy Paper on emCCD developments (my emphasis added):

A signal to noise gain of three is possible if the astronomy community can move from standard CCD technology
to new Electron Multiplication CCDs.
However the present generation of EMCCDs do not cover the available field of view of a typical spectrograph.
Therefore development of a new larger EMCCD is required to sample a typical field and still give the signal to noise improvements described.
Such a device will probably cost >1M Euro to develop

Last edited by Peter Ward; 12-10-2019 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 13-10-2019, 10:22 AM
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emCCD sounds good but doesn't sound like it will arrive on our telescopes.

Sony has some high tech sensors coming out.

One I just read about is full frame, 48mp, BSI, 3 layer organic film, and possibly quad bayer meaning different sets of pixels can be combined for different exposures creating a HDR.

I suspect Sony will beat Fuji/Panasonic with organic film CMOS sensors.

Greg.
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