#1  
Old 17-06-2016, 06:46 AM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,787
new QHY 16mp CMOS camera

http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/54...63m-prototype/

that was quick. seeing the ZWO shelves empty as fast they can restock must have spurred on QHY a bit.

I guess that CMOS cameras are much easier to design than CCD, since all of the hard bits are on-chip and have already been fine tuned by specialist engineering teams. That should also mean that all CMOS cameras with the same chip should have practically identical imaging performance and they should cost much the same.

Last edited by Shiraz; 17-06-2016 at 07:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17-06-2016, 07:45 AM
lazjen's Avatar
lazjen (Chris)
PI cult member

lazjen is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Flaxton, Qld
Posts: 1,699
That's exactly what is needed to help spur things on a bit.

No real details yet. I'm betting the specs are going to be very similar to the ZWO, although I hope they can do something better.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17-06-2016, 04:24 PM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,442
I am surprised to read they plan to be available within a few and a bit. Their 16200 camera has been in testing for months and months with no real push it would seem to get it out.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19-06-2016, 05:14 PM
ZeroID's Avatar
ZeroID (Brent)
Lost in Space ....

ZeroID is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 4,950
Lets see if they can come close to ZWO' s pricing, that's the real test.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19-06-2016, 05:32 PM
glend (Glen)
Registered User

glend is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Macquarie
Posts: 5,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroID View Post
Lets see if they can come close to ZWO' s pricing, that's the real test.
Yes the gravy train might be ending for some of these camera suppliers, i see Bintel is out of stock for all the ZWO 1600s now, and back to taking orders for the next shipment.

I want to see a parallel test between the ASI1600 and the QHY 16meg camera.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19-06-2016, 05:48 PM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by glend View Post
Yes the gravy train might be ending for some of these camera suppliers, i see Bintel is out of stock for all the ZWO 1600s now, and back to taking orders for the next shipment.

I want to see a parallel test between the ASI1600 and the QHY 16meg camera.
the ZWO website has the 16mp CMOS cam on backorder only.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19-06-2016, 06:16 PM
RickS's Avatar
RickS (Rick)
PI cult recruiter

RickS is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by glend View Post
Yes the gravy train might be ending for some of these camera suppliers
I'd say that most of them have been barely surviving for years knowing a bit about the economics of building hardware products. That's borne out by the acquisitions of Apogee and SBIG and also the data that FLI shared on their market sizes at the AAIC conference a couple of years back. If it wasn't for the life sciences we'd never have advanced past adapting DSLRs.

Hopefully, we'll continue to see advancement in sensor technology and adoption of it by a range of vendors from low cost/minimal features to more spendy/high quality. That will give us a spectrum of products that match the diversity of imagers and their needs.

Cheers,
Rick.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19-06-2016, 07:08 PM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post
I'd say that most of them have been barely surviving for years knowing a bit about the economics of building hardware products. That's borne out by the acquisitions of Apogee and SBIG and also the data that FLI shared on their market sizes at the AAIC conference a couple of years back. If it wasn't for the life sciences we'd never have advanced past adapting DSLRs.

Hopefully, we'll continue to see advancement in sensor technology and adoption of it by a range of vendors from low cost/minimal features to more spendy/high quality. That will give us a spectrum of products that match the diversity of imagers and their needs.

Cheers,
Rick.
Unfortunately there may be a problem for the top end makers. It used to be that a top end maker (FLI eg) made CCD cameras with significantly better specs than second tier makers, since they invested in low noise amplifier techniques, deep cooling, hermetic CCD chambers, high quality shutters, IR flooding etc. With the availability of mono DSLR CMOS chips, even very small outfits can get access to a lot of very high quality engineering at no major cost - they buy it built into the chip. Plus, much of the ancillary stuff that used to set the premium makers apart is no longer necessary.

Up till now, it was worth spending more on a top end camera, because it would work better. That may no longer be the case, since all CMOS cameras will have essentially the same technology - that will make it more difficult to justify a premium price for the top end makers. I hope that they have the ability to adapt to a higher volume, lower margin environment, since the end result of the current trend could well be the consolidation of the market into a couple of high volume makers with a consequent loss of competition to keep prices down. There may also be a reduction in the variety of camera specs, since we will have to make do with whatever suits the primary needs of the DSLR world. Neither outcome is appealing, but it may the route that we are beginning to head down.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19-06-2016, 07:39 PM
RickS's Avatar
RickS (Rick)
PI cult recruiter

RickS is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiraz View Post
Unfortunately there may be a problem for the top end makers. It used to be that a top end maker (FLI eg) made CCD cameras with significantly better specs than second tier makers, since they invested in low noise amplifier techniques, deep cooling, hermetic CCD chambers, high quality shutters, IR flooding etc. With the availability of mono DSLR CMOS chips, even very small outfits can get access to a lot of very high quality engineering at no major cost - they buy it built into the chip. Plus, much of the ancillary stuff that used to set the premium makers apart is no longer necessary.

Up till now, it was worth spending more on a top end camera, because it would work better. That may no longer be the case, since all CMOS cameras will have essentially the same technology - that will make it more difficult to justify a premium price for the top end makers. I hope that they have the ability to adapt to a higher volume, lower margin environment, since the end result of the current trend could well be the consolidation of the market into a couple of high volume makers with a consequent loss of competition to keep prices down. There may also be a reduction in the variety of camera specs, since we will have to make do with whatever suits the primary needs of the DSLR world. Neither outcome is appealing, but it may the route that we are beginning to head down.
Ray, I doubt that we'll see much higher volumes to compensate for lower margins but perhaps there will be a niche for more specialised sensors. Or for good quality software

Cheers,
Rick.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19-06-2016, 07:47 PM
glend (Glen)
Registered User

glend is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Macquarie
Posts: 5,331
Rick's reference to the life science connection is important as that area is driving the development of sCMOS chips. There are a number of sCMOS cameras already in production and use for microscopy and other science imaging requirements, such as Fluorescence Correlation Spectroscopy. The Andor Zyla has an apparent QE of 83%, with fast frame rates, USB3 connectivity. But I believe most of the current crop of sCMOS are fairly small sensors, with a max size of maybe 6 megapixels. I am happy for them to cover the development cost of the technology on the back of government, health, life science, and industry development budgets.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 19-06-2016, 08:15 PM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post
Or for good quality software

Cheers,
Rick.
Re volume, my assumption has been that the low entry cost of the CMOS chips will mean that a lot more photographers will try their hand at cooled mono astroimaging - a modded DSLR will no longer be the jumping off point.

better software could help though

Last edited by Shiraz; 19-06-2016 at 08:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20-06-2016, 03:02 PM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,442
The acid test will be images as good as or better than what existing astro CCDs cameras are providing. If they can't at least match these then it may end up being a 2nd tier type camera. If they can better existing then it will force people to switch over time.

I agree about the access to high end engineering when mono versions of these sophisticated mirrorless camera sensors are available. Especially if they can get some Sony Exmor R type sensors which are the cutting edge.

Sony seems to be several generations ahead of virtually everyone except Samsung who unfortunately decided to leave the mirrorless camera market despite their last model being a technical tour de force. Maybe some Samsung sensors. 28mp APSc sized BSI CMOS. Also cutting edge.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 08:26 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Lunatico Astronomical
Advertisement
Celestron Australia
Advertisement
OzScopes Authorised Dealer
Advertisement
NexDome Observatories
Advertisement
Meade Australia
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
SkyWatcher Australia
Advertisement
Astronomy and Electronics Centre
Advertisement