Beggars

[xelasnave]

My little begging mate certainly looks scary but he is ok.

I used to knock around with a chap who really looked scary , king of hells angles look, I remember once we went to Spencer ( I lived on the other side of the river) we went to the shop and bought some beer. As we walked over to the Spencer drinking tree, known as the Dunkirk Hotel the four bikers sitting there got up and left before we could join them..they were in a rush to leave when they saw us coming...clearly his fault as I looked most inoccent.


And another yarn..I was at the General Bourke Hotel and the most evil dude I have ever seen walked in..I felt uneasy..months later we became friends playing pool...Over a couple of beers he said to me..You know the first time I saw you I was worried as I thought you must be head of the mafia ( I used to wear three piece pin strip suits into the Parramatta Pubs)...of course I told him he gave me an uneasy feeling.

It just shows how first impressions are meaningless..I was not the actual head of the mafia...in fact had nothing to do with them.

He was however a sort of little drug lord and had five boys but basically a really nice guy.

But covered in ink, all his face and his hands were just colour really.

Then there was the time ...oh another time...just remind me to tell you about the master at arms introducing me to the whole gang.
Alex

[JohnF (John)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Begging isn't poor form but it is hard to pick the truly in need. I was a bit gob smacked when a beggar ask me to buy them some food because they were hungry, it was different to the usual request for money. I was happy to oblige. Some beggars here in Melbourne can be quite aggressive.

When someone asks for money for food, I normally do not give money but offer to take them into the supermarket and buy them some food.

That way, I always find out if they really need food.

Certainly I have had people knock back my offer to buy them food.

Those who ask for a bus fare usually will get a few coins.



I know on Lady, Therese, who feeds the Homeless, has an opshop, and drop in centre with coffee, showers, etc. She was Homeless living I her car with two young Children at once stage, so knows what it is like, hence now is doing this Charity work.

[Rainmaker (Matt)]

I met a young guy begging outside Woollies, Mawson, he had a sign saying he needed money for food. I offered him a job mowing and weeding on a fortnightly basis.... I got told to F.... Off.....

I saw him the next day gathering up his belongings, he then went into the bottle shop got a couple of beers before sitting back down with his sign.....

What gives?

I don’t usually have any cash, but if I do I give it to The Sallies....

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

I met a young guy begging outside Woollies, Mawson, he had a sign saying he needed money for food. I offered him a job mowing and weeding on a fortnightly basis.... I got told to F.... Off.....

I saw him the next day gathering up his belongings, he then went into the bottle shop got a couple of beers before sitting back down with his sign.....

What gives?

I don’t usually have any cash, but if I do I give it to The Sallies....

Only ever had one beggar in Raccoon City so far - he was outside Woolies at Majura, dressed in a suit, with a handwritten card as he could not speak English. He was a refugee from Iraq, and wanted some food for his family - so I went into Woolies with him and bought him $20 worth of food. He was so grateful. I felt it was entirely genuine.

Still see a lot of homeless tents around Canberra (Fyshwick, off Barry Drive, City Hill, along The Swamp near NMA) and a couple mobile homeless people pushing carts with their stuff or trolleys.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I have given people a couple of train fares when I have run across what you would have to call beggars outside of Melbourne train stations. I never gave money, I bought them a ticket to where they said they were trying to go, if they did not want that then they were presumably trying it on.

About twenty years ago I was working for a major telco and at the time they were undergoing a major infrastructure build around bits of the Melbourne CBD, they laid on a couple of quality control guys who scampered around the CBD checking on construction, one of those has some stories, the beggar who haunted one of the construction sites was taking in a couple of hundred dollars every single day working about 50M of footpath.

There are definitely those in need as evidenced by Steve above, but some are most certainly putting it on and they unfortunately poison things for those who really are in need.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

I met a young guy begging outside Woollies, Mawson, he had a sign saying he needed money for food. I offered him a job mowing and weeding on a fortnightly basis.... I got told to F.... Off.....

Another story from my Social Security days seems relevant here to explain some people's motivation - or lack of.

In 1980 or 81, at a time of historically high unemployment, the then-PM Mal the Grazier made a lot of noise about cracking down on 'dole bludgers'. He decree that everyone on the dole would be interviewed and if their work-seeking efforts weren't satisfactory they would be suspended. I don't have the time to explain the idiocy of this thought bubble - you can work that out. I'll just point out that at the time the dept was struggling to cope with the recent rise in unemployment and regional offices were at breaking point. Yet no extra resources were allocated to this task.

At Wollongong office the interviews were supposed to be done by Kim and myself but Kim was normally needed in payments. This meant that I had an interview scheduled every 5 minutes all day, including tea and lunch breaks. There was absolutely zero chance of us verifying, or disproving, anything that was said in an interview. So, clients could and did lie through their teeth at me but the lack of resources meant no one was ever suspended.

Now, I was very used to being lied to (part of the job) and I think I was pretty good at sorting truth from BS. So I was able to see for myself the trajectory of the chronically unemployed and the results were totally unsurprising.

• the longer they had been unemployed the less they sought a job
• people who had been in the workforce maintained their enthusiasm longer than people who had never had a job
• if someone reached their mid-twenties and had never worked they were basically unemployable

This last group just never developed the self-discipline needed to work. You know what it's like to drag in on a Monday morning, what it's like to stick to an unpleasant task, what it's like to take orders from a goose etc etc. If you don't learn that young it gets harder and harder to do. Also, they start to decide they don't want a job, that they are too smart to work, they are just fine as they are. I believe that this last delusion is a way of protecting their ego: society hasn't rejected them, they have rejected society. And anyone who tries to tell them different, or even help them, is likely to get a dose of their pent up anger and frustration. This cohort will be a drain on society all their life, yet they too are victims of capitalism's inability to provide work for all.

[dikman (Richard)]

A hi-tech version of beggars now exists, they're called "influencers". They use social media to ask for freebies - hotel rooms, restaurant meals, travel etc etc. These people are basically unemployable because they think they're too good to do a "normal" job.

[LewisM]

GoFundMe rings my alarm bells too - can't be bothered saving or sacrifice-selling, so instead they set up a GoFundMe. So endemic in this NOW NOW NOW ME ME ME mentality of the modern world. The world owes them because they are more needy and important than everyone else, so GIMME GIMME GIMME.

It's borderline scam-theft in 95% of the cases.

[xelasnave]

I wonder how you would go with this line.."Please mate can you give me $7 as I am broke and hanging for a beer..honest I won't spend it on food.
Alex

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I wonder how you would go with this line.."Please mate can you give me $7 as I am broke and hanging for a beer..honest I won't spend it on food.
Alex

Meh … if they are that honest that they come out with that line.. I would give them $7.

Originally Posted by LewisM

GoFundMe rings my alarm bells too - can't be bothered saving or sacrifice-selling, so instead they set up a GoFundMe. So endemic in this NOW NOW NOW ME ME ME mentality of the modern world. The world owes them because they are more needy and important than everyone else, so GIMME GIMME GIMME.

It's borderline scam-theft in 95% of the cases.

And who is the real fool in the GoFundMe.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

And who is the real fool in the GoFundMe.

Exactly. Like any scam.

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

I'll add my bit ... didn't happen to me but read it in a Paper many,many,many years ago when Mobile Phones hit the markets.......

An Australian couple were on their trip to New York and encounted a ' Beggar ' on one of the streets there
She felt compassion for him , so while opening her purse the couple heard a Mobile Phone ring
( they themselves didn't own one yet .)....the Beggar said ' could you hold on a minute ' and duly reached into his pocket and took out his Mobile and starting talking
..... she looked at her Husband, closed her purse and walked away in total disgust ..... fancy a ' Beggar with a Mobile Phone '

True Story ........

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Now, I was very used to being lied to (part of the job) and I think I was pretty good at sorting truth from BS. So I was able to see for myself the trajectory of the chronically unemployed and the results were totally unsurprising.

• the longer they had been unemployed the less they sought a job
• people who had been in the workforce maintained their enthusiasm longer than people who had never had a job
• if someone reached their mid-twenties and had never worked they were basically unemployable

This last group just never developed the self-discipline needed to work. You know what it's like to drag in on a Monday morning, what it's like to stick to an unpleasant task, what it's like to take orders from a goose etc etc. If you don't learn that young it gets harder and harder to do. Also, they start to decide they don't want a job, that they are too smart to work, they are just fine as they are. I believe that this last delusion is a way of protecting their ego: society hasn't rejected them, they have rejected society. And anyone who tries to tell them different, or even help them, is likely to get a dose of their pent up anger and frustration. This cohort will be a drain on society all their life, yet they too are victims of capitalism's inability to provide work for all.

Thanks Dude, I always believed this from my own observations (I live in a suburb surrounded by such). I lacked however, 1st hand knowledge from never having worked in this industry. Interesting to see suspicions confirmed - something that doesn't happen every day for me.

Why am I so invested? I can barely support my own family, yet my taxes pay for their life. I find it painful to reconcile...

[xelasnave]

The reality is as each day passes there will be job losses due to increased efficiency.

If one stops to think about the jobs lost to robots or lost because of computer tech is it so difficult to realise jobs will become fewer a d those available will require high levels of training..There would be few jobs that do not require much higher levels of education than they required only decades ago..take the humble shop assistant.. these days I expect they would need some computer skills and be able to do things like change the paper roll in the receipt printout machine..simple sure but would it surprise you to find there are folk who simply can not manage such a simple job.

And many highly skilled jobs are going to robots..how many spray painters would Holden employ if they were still here..oh there is another issue jobs going overseas...but it's all good.global trade and all that..there will be casualties..And hatred between those who have work and those that ďont..infighting is good and takes eyes off perhaps the bigger problem which I feel is adjusting to the future and still giving dignity to even the most humble of our citizens and extending help to those who simply can not cope with the demands of a high tech economy and society.

Throw some money at the problem..a team to investigate what is happening to those not benefiting by the new ways of doing things..it would seem education is key..And by that I mean to educate those who may never contribute rather than just giving them beer and drugs.

Alex

[JeniSkunk (Jenifur)]

The last point you make about education, has a rather unusual twist.
In the British science fiction comic series, Judge Dredd, unemployment is a mandatory high school subject in Mega City 1.
When it was introduced, in a 1981 story, it was seen as just another sarcastic extreme take on society. Near on 40 years later, and such a subject would be actually useful in schools. Life imitating art.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by JeniSkunk

The last point you make about education, has a rather unusual twist.
In the British science fiction comic series, Judge Dredd, unemployment is a mandatory high school subject in Mega City 1.
When it was introduced, in a 1981 story, it was seen as just another sarcastic extreme take on society. Near on 40 years later, and such a subject would be actually useful in schools. Life imitating art.

I know it seems crazy but yes we really need to educate folk not only how to work but how not to work.
And crazier still make education about learning things that are not necessarily job related..I mean even art is taught as something that will have a footing in a career.

Set a maximum of work hours one can do at the end of which you move over and give someone else a go.

The current system will see a massive divide between a number of social stratas and that will not end well...
Alex

[Ukastronomer (Jeremy)]

BOY am I going to be controversial here, well I have an excuse.

I started work at Heathrow Airport (British Airports Authority) on 7, 11 1977 in Airport Planning, later moved to Terminal ! management and spent time in Terminal 2 including crowd control (our terminals are rather small

It was well known in the 70/80s and on and a joke that people came in to be with their families and the FIRST thing they did was get a taxi from the rank to Hounslow just a few miles away and sign on at the social security

I have not always worked, eg when I finally got full custody of my sons 9, 7 and 6 all ADHA, aspergers, I had to be a stay at home dad.

But I had always worked, later I worked again and as you can here if your income is low, I claimed benefits, I started JRS Photography and it is still here, but I retired at 60, NOW I have just applied for another job at 62, I am not ashamed to say the money would help.

I personally know people who at 24 have never worked as life on the dole is too good here no wonder everyone wants to come to the UK

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Ukastronomer

... as life on the dole is too good here no wonder everyone wants to come to the UK

Not only the UK. Every country that has a good support system gets creamed by the people who least need it. That was my experience in working and living in different countries. The one in need miss out as a result of the abuse.

[xelasnave]

Governments just want more people.

Think how much revenue is generated from every dollar spent. They are happy to throw it around as the moment it is spent they get most of it back. Think GST, fuel tax, booze, etc ...

Their performances that they want to cut social security etc is only to keep their followers happy.
Alex

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Their performances that they want to cut social security etc is only to keep their followers happy.
Alex

Try telling that to a victim of robodebt.