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  #1  
Old 03-07-2017, 07:31 PM
Astronovice (Calvin)
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The username says it all!

Hi to everyone,

I am a retired engineer looking to satisfy my lingering technical urges and boy have I found a way to do it.

After much research, most which advised against, it in early June l purchased a second hand (6m old) HEQ5 Pro mount together with Saxon 200/1000 newt. The scope came with a single 2" x 26mm "no name" ?Saxon eyepiece, xagl USB interface cable, 240v power supply unit and a pro star mono guidecam. All of the electrical gear except the power supply was unopened and in its original wrapping. For what I paid it was well worth ignoring the advice!

I have since purchased a Saxon Cheshire collimator and an extension pier for the HEQ5 - see why below.

I am anxiously awaiting delivery of a 1.25" x 11mm Explore Scientific 82 degree eyepiece, which should mean that the current rain will persist for at least another fortnight.

THE PLAN

Learn how to use the gear and add to it as required - slowly!
Learn the sky
Astro image via CCD - eventually!

THE STORY SO FAR

Lots of time spent learning how to polar align using a compass as the start point as I have no access to Octans due to trees. It also required that I purchase the extension pier for the mount as living at latitude S 16 degrees 45 minutes means the counterweight fouls the front leg of the tripod without it. I wasn't keen to saw off the lug and replace it by drilling and tapping for a screw 180 degrees opposite as an alternative at this stage in my astronomical experience.
I have succeeded with a single star alignment

I've seen Venus and 4 moons as well as Saturn!

It has rained and been cloudy lots in FNQ! Which means:
I have downloaded and set up EQMOD and CDC

I have attempted to check the collimation, which brings me to the first problem I have not managed to research my way out of, being:
The scope has a 2" focusser, which means the combined Cheshire and sight tube is loaded in the scope via a 2" to 1.25" adaptor ring. When I look down the sight tube it's restricted diameter versus its extension means that the outer limit of my view (being the sight tube diameter) is less than the diameter of the primary mirror, meaning that I cannot see its retaining clips or the circumference of the mirror. This means I cannot check for concentrity of all of the circles relating to the primary and secondary mirrors and sight tube alignment etc.
if I remove the collimation tool and look directly into the focusser the primary and it's clips are plainly in view. I have been using John Reed's write up to guide me thus far, the link to Astrobaby is mentioned in many locations but all result in "page not found" so I cannot access that for assistance.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:16 PM
Wavytone
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Ok ... how many ways to find Nirvana...

1. A compass, as you know. Crude, not very accurate.

2. If you can see a nice distant landmark such as a church, tall building or even a mountain peak, buy a topographic map at scale 100,000:1 and locate your position, the landmark at measure the bearing to try north directly with a protractor. You can figure the rest, as an engineer.

Topo maps are also available as PDF and you might be able to bludgeon google maps into giving you the bearing directly.

3. Find your longitude, and determine the actual time the sun cross the meridian on (say) tomorrow. If you have a plumb-bob handy the shadow points exactly north south as the sun crosses your local meridian, ie at local solar noon. Done with care this is likely to be accurate to 0.5 degree or even 0.25 degree and a lot better than a compass.

Hint: got a tripod ? Hang plumb bob from tripod.

4. Other methods involving the sun either side of solar noon, a circle drawn on level ground using string and a nail, and a plumb bob suspended over the centre of the circle casting shadow. Wait for plumb bob to cross the perimeter of circle near sunrise and sunset, mark these angles and bisect the interior angle, this give north or south. Simple geometry known to the builders of Stonehenge and the pyramids. Won't bore you here, too long to explain, maybe you will figure the rest.

5. Use the stars and the dec circle on your mount. Choose a star low near the east or west horizon and set the dec axis of the mount to the stars declination. Loc the dec axis firmly. Now adjust the azimuth of the mount to centre this in the scope.

Assumes mount and dec circle are accurately square and calibrated. Not a safe assumption unless you can test it. Google "calibrate theodolite" to see what this entails.

6. Using an astro map of the stars near the S pole, choose one that culminates (ie crosses your local meridian) in the evening. Using the RA of this star calculate the exact time it crosses your meridian. A bright and dead easy star is best for this. Set the mount so the dec axis is horizontal (use a level) and adjust the azimuth of the mount to centre this star at the time it culminates. Repeat for a few other nearby stars to make sure you have done it right.

This should align the mount azimuth within the resolution of the dec circle or better.

7. Drift aligning using your scope. Google this or find the page on IIS.

Last edited by Wavytone; 03-07-2017 at 09:53 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:55 AM
cadman342001 (Andy)
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G'day Calvin, I'm in Trinity Park !

Actually, I'm in Surfers Paradise visiting my daughter / picking up scope and HEQ5 Pro.

What's all this about the counterweights fouling the leg of the mount ? I'm new to all this too and hadn't even considered the possibility as the one time use here so far was at 27 degrees. Bloody typical.



Andy

EDIT - ordered one from Astroshop Australia. $189 delivered. My scope is a 1200mm FL 127mm refractor so I figured it would kill 2 birds with one stone - no more clashing with tripod legs and no more groveling in the dirt attempting to look at things on the zenith. I'm not getting any younger ! (49)

Last edited by cadman342001; 04-07-2017 at 10:40 AM.
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  #4  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:44 AM
astro744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronovice View Post
I've seen Venus and 4 moons as well as Saturn!
That would be Jupiter with four visible moons. Both Jupiter and Saturn are in the evening sky between N & E after end of twilight. Saturn also has a few visible moons. Venus is in the same direction but in the early morning hours before sunrise. Venus is also visible all day (unaided) until it sets before the Sun in the early afternoon. It is currently the morning 'star' and in a few months will move back to the evening sky and become the evening 'star'. Of course 'star' in Venus' case refer to planet.

I highly recommend Stellarium for PC/Mac and app.

Enjoy!
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:35 PM
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doppler (Rick)
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Hi Calvin, here's a couple of video links that I find pretty useful. This guy has a video on just about every aspect of astronomy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-fl9SEYHw

And this guy on astrophotography.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQB6UnrTEEM
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:01 PM
Astronovice (Calvin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone View Post
Ok ... how many ways to find Nirvana...

1. A compass, as you know. Crude, not very accurate.

2. If you can see a nice distant landmark such as a church, tall building or even a mountain peak, buy a topographic map at scale 100,000:1 and locate your position, the landmark at measure the bearing to try north directly with a protractor. You can figure the rest, as an engineer.

Topo maps are also available as PDF and you might be able to bludgeon google maps into giving you the bearing directly.

3. Find your longitude, and determine the actual time the sun cross the meridian on (say) tomorrow. If you have a plumb-bob handy the shadow points exactly north south as the sun crosses your local meridian, ie at local solar noon. Done with care this is likely to be accurate to 0.5 degree or even 0.25 degree and a lot better than a compass.

Hint: got a tripod ? Hang plumb bob from tripod.

4. Other methods involving the sun either side of solar noon, a circle drawn on level ground using string and a nail, and a plumb bob suspended over the centre of the circle casting shadow. Wait for plumb bob to cross the perimeter of circle near sunrise and sunset, mark these angles and bisect the interior angle, this give north or south. Simple geometry known to the builders of Stonehenge and the pyramids. Won't bore you here, too long to explain, maybe you will figure the rest.

5. Use the stars and the dec circle on your mount. Choose a star low near the east or west horizon and set the dec axis of the mount to the stars declination. Loc the dec axis firmly. Now adjust the azimuth of the mount to centre this in the scope.

Assumes mount and dec circle are accurately square and calibrated. Not a safe assumption unless you can test it. Google "calibrate theodolite" to see what this entails.

6. Using an astro map of the stars near the S pole, choose one that culminates (ie crosses your local meridian) in the evening. Using the RA of this star calculate the exact time it crosses your meridian. A bright and dead easy star is best for this. Set the mount so the dec axis is horizontal (use a level) and adjust the azimuth of the mount to centre this star at the time it culminates. Repeat for a few other nearby stars to make sure you have done it right.

This should align the mount azimuth within the resolution of the dec circle or better.

7. Drift aligning using your scope. Google this or find the page on IIS.
Thanks for your reply - plenty to absorb and work with here.

7. Will be the most likely ultimate solution. At home I am hemmed in and only have a restricted patch of sky to play in.
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:18 PM
Astronovice (Calvin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro744 View Post
That would be Jupiter with four visible moons. Both Jupiter and Saturn are in the evening sky between N & E after end of twilight. Saturn also has a few visible moons. Venus is in the same direction but in the early morning hours before sunrise. Venus is also visible all day (unaided) until it sets before the Sun in the early afternoon. It is currently the morning 'star' and in a few months will move back to the evening sky and become the evening 'star'. Of course 'star' in Venus' case refer to planet.

I highly recommend Stellarium for PC/Mac and app.

Enjoy!
No idea why I wrote Venus instead of Jupiter!

When I saw it it was the one time the go to found it straight away and I got good tracking after initial single star alignment using Arcturus.

I would like to use Stellarium but resorted to CDC due to problems. If I access Stellarium as a stand alone program all is fine, but when I than access the scope using Stellarium with EQMOD the horizontal (bottom of screen) menu icons all disappear and are inaccessible. I have an ASUS i7 laptop running Windows 10 64bit. If I mod the Stellarium ini file to say "hide horizontal menu = FALSE" instead of the default option of TRUE Stellarium then freezes.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:25 PM
Astronovice (Calvin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadman342001 View Post
G'day Calvin, I'm in Trinity Park !

Actually, I'm in Surfers Paradise visiting my daughter / picking up scope and HEQ5 Pro.

What's all this about the counterweights fouling the leg of the mount ? I'm new to all this too and hadn't even considered the possibility as the one time use here so far was at 27 degrees. Bloody typical.



Andy

EDIT - ordered one from Astroshop Australia. $189 delivered. My scope is a 1200mm FL 127mm refractor so I figured it would kill 2 birds with one stone - no more clashing with tripod legs and no more groveling in the dirt attempting to look at things on the zenith. I'm not getting any younger ! (49)
Hi Andy

Good to know you are local. In my case with a 200/1000 newt the pier extension means much of my viewing is now via the bottom step of a stepladder. More to set up!

I managed to buy mine locally from the Astro shop in the Pier Centre in Cairns. Talking to the guy there he said he usually keeps one in stock as any HEQ5 owners moving up here usually find out the hard way they need one, as I did.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:31 PM
Astronovice (Calvin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doppler View Post
Hi Calvin, here's a couple of video links that I find pretty useful. This guy has a video on just about every aspect of astronomy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-fl9SEYHw

And this guy on astrophotography.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQB6UnrTEEM
Thanks for the info. First clear sky tonight and managed to get a live image of the moon in the mono guidecam that came with the gear. I obviously need a lunar filter because the image was still overloaded somewhat even with the gain at zero and exposure time minimal. Seeing wasn't particularly good either but obtaining the image was a first.
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  #10  
Old 05-07-2017, 04:18 PM
cadman342001 (Andy)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronovice View Post
Hi Andy

Good to know you are local. In my case with a 200/1000 newt the pier extension means much of my viewing is now via the bottom step of a stepladder. More to set up!

I managed to buy mine locally from the Astro shop in the Pier Centre in Cairns. Talking to the guy there he said he usually keeps one in stock as any HEQ5 owners moving up here usually find out the hard way they need one, as I did.
There's an astro shop in Cairns. Who knew !
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  #11  
Old 20-07-2017, 07:39 AM
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xelasnave
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To find South point your camera in the general direction and do a time exposure, as many as it takes, you will soon figure out where the celestial South pole is even if you can't directly see it.
Alex
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  #12  
Old 20-07-2017, 09:17 PM
Wavytone
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Thank you Alex ! Something I did long ago...

8. Point camera in the general direction of the Pole and expose for several minutes (I did this with film and used 20 minute exposures). The image will show lovely arcs all rotating around the pole.

Use the Mark I eyeball nature provided to guess the centre of the arcs. Look up. You'll figure the rest.

I made a negative print of this and used to carry it with my ancient C8 to line up the polar axis on the SCP. Won't go into how - too long for here - you have to see this done on the field and it requires a clear view of the pole which you don't have.
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Old 21-07-2017, 07:15 AM
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Hi Wavy.
Film certainly predates my attempts.
That how I would polar align.
Place scope in home position, take an exposure, adjust the mount, take another, adjust and so on until the stars were rotating with their center in the shot.
A compass only shows magnetic North and that's 12 degrees ( I think) away from true North, so if your scope is lined up using a compass its really a long way off.
Anyways so easy with a DSLR just on a tripod and its normal lens to work it out...

Now get ready for folk asking...what is film?

Alex
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Old 21-07-2017, 11:42 AM
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Visionary (David)
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Dear Astro Novice,

Buy a Refractor!

Some what tongue in cheek, but none the less I am attempting to make a point. The best thing about Refractors are that they are "point and shoot", no collimation, no significant cool-down, they let you get on with the job of learning your craft.

Cheers

David
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Old 21-07-2017, 12:55 PM
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xelasnave
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I have a 150 mm 1200mm f/l refractor and I found it a pain capturing stuff overhead as I would be on my hands and knees looking at the camera and I prefer / like a reflector because the camera is positioned better...for me.

But maybe say an 80mm refractor with say 400 mm f/l would be OK...for me.
I used a 80 mm guide scope and it was OK.

But for the novice my main advice would be get started. I see folk asking this or that but the key is to remember whatever you buy you will have good points and bad points and you will probably want a bigger better one...unless you buy something like Hubble first up...but even then you need the space to put it.

Alex
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Old 21-07-2017, 04:09 PM
Wavytone
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Hi Alex,

Nirvana for visual IMHO is a small 70-80 mm APO on an altaz mount with encoders married to Sky Safari as a push-to setup.

A really nice one for smal scopes that seems to be very overlooked is the Skywatcher AllView - this one tracks and does GOTO as well. Perfect for refractors up to 100mm or small cats up to a C5. I bought one for my 70mm but also realised it is way too small for my larger scopes.

For those with larger aspirations the setup I have now is push-to : a Losmandy AZ8 with encoders, Nexus II and SkySafari. Overkill for my 70mm refractor, but perfect for my larger scopes. No cables or big batteries to trip over. No need for finders either.
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Old 26-08-2017, 06:54 AM
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