SA power - a plan at last

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Finally, after decades of wishful thinking, a government has produced a logical plan for power security and a low emission future in SA, based on a mixture of gas and renewables along with battery storage, plus a state owned generator to keep the bas#$@ds honest(er).

Seems that there was no point in waiting for the feds to act - they still seem to think that the failed national energy market will spookily sort it all out and that coal is the new clean energy source.

The situation is a bit crazy - the rules of the market apparently do not allow batteries to compete (a lot of changes will be needed there). The other crazy is that, with Australia soon to be the world's largest exporter of LNG, AGL is talking seriously of setting up a processing plant to import LNG into SEAus - possibly from Asia and at possibly more than double?? the price that we get when we sell the stuff into Asia. Where were our governments when the gas companies contracted to sell all the cheap LNG to other countries, leaving nothing for us...the market is a good mechanism in fixed environments, but it does not take the place of strategic planning.

[LaughingBeagles (Peter)]

Actually, in WA we (the former Lib Gov) negotiated a great deal in relation to LNG, but the company pulled the pin at the last minute. You can't force someone to purchase your product (unless you're a power generator monopoly... oh wait...).

Anyway, despite SA Labor botching this for some years now, I am envious of the clear skies those whole of state power outages would have created!

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by LaughingBeagles

Actually, in WA we (the former Lib Gov) negotiated a great deal in relation to LNG, but the company pulled the pin at the last minute. You can't force someone to purchase your product (unless you're a power generator monopoly... oh wait...).

Anyway, despite SA Labor botching this for some years now, I am envious of the clear skies those whole of state power outages would have created!

Since we were running on wind power, our statewide power outage made no difference at all to the atmosphere, apart from the hot air that immediately poured from every hidden agenda

It was just as cloudy as usual only moreso - we had the extreme winds that brought down the power lines, heavy rain and completely overcast conditions.

[LaughingBeagles (Peter)]

Dang!!

[Atmos (Colin)]

Victoria is watching SA and in doing so decided to close down our coal power plant that provides for 25% of our power... Plus there is nothing to replace it. A few months ago I changed my ideas of buying a house to building; going off-grid entirely.
Don't really want to be connected to a grid that is going to on one hand make me pay more for power because it has lost 25% of its base load and on the other force me to go into a brown out on a 40ºC day.

[csb (Craig)]

This does seem promising!

May also be history repeating.

News story on ABC website about Thomas Playford (former Premier SA). Back then the electricity was supplied by private companies who were chasing big profits and the system was not well coordinated. So after Playford became Premier, he came up with the ETSA Act and brought the whole SA electricity production, distribution & billing into state ownership - ETSA.

Now that is strong and community oriented leadership!

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Victoria is watching SA and in doing so decided to close down our coal power plant that provides for 25% of our power... Plus there is nothing to replace it. A few months ago I changed my ideas of buying a house to building; going off-grid entirely.
Don't really want to be connected to a grid that is going to on one hand make me pay more for power because it has lost 25% of its base load and on the other force me to go into a brown out on a 40ºC day.

do you know why they are closing the plant Colin? It seems like it will open a huge hole in power availability if there is nothing to replace it. From the SA perspective the same company (ENGIN from France) also owns the underutilised Pelican Point gas generator in this state - maybe they see best profits from getting that back in full production to make up any shortfall on the grid? But who knows - nobody seems to be planning anything at all with customers in mind and there is certainly no long term national strategy - just a collection of companies with varying interest in Australia, all jostling to get the best buck they can today, regardless of service provision.

Originally Posted by csb

This does seem promising!

May also be history repeating.

News story on ABC website about Thomas Playford (former Premier SA). Back then the electricity was supplied by private companies who were chasing big profits and the system was not well coordinated. So after Playford became Premier, he came up with the ETSA Act and brought the whole SA electricity production, distribution & billing into state ownership - ETSA.

Now that is strong and community oriented leadership!

interesting comparson

[glend (Glen)]

I watched the SA news conference yesterday and can't understand how spending all that money is not going to raise energy prices in SA. If people living there are prepared to pay (forever), for it then fine. It does seem like a knee jerk political reaction to shore up support, rather than an element of a national energy infrastructure initiative. Of course, there is no leadership at all on a national energy policy so it is hardly surprising that SA would try to go it alone.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

do you know why they are closing the plant Colin?

One word... "Green"

It is a dirty filthy EVIL brown coal power plant. It is the scum of all human filth in respects to power generation and must be shut down!!!
Of course it's being shut down on idealology but there isn't any real plans. The plant is going to be turned into a green reserve, the excavation area is going to be turned into a lake and populated by fish for the locals to go fishing in. At least the hundreds of locals will have something to do to pass the time while looking for work

Victoria is currently building some wind farms (seen how reliable they are) but they may or may not be in operation before the plant shuts down next March. I personally believe that the plant should be shut down in time, maybe a decade or so after we've got the infrastructure to replace it in place.

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Victoria is watching SA and in doing so decided to close down our coal power plant that provides for 25% of our power... Plus there is nothing to replace it. A few months ago I changed my ideas of buying a house to building; going off-grid entirely.
Don't really want to be connected to a grid that is going to on one hand make me pay more for power because it has lost 25% of its base load and on the other force me to go into a brown out on a 40ºC day.

We can thank our scumbag labor/green far-left socialist ******* premiers and their relentless green religion for this farce. It's stripping away our quality of life bit by bit yet but they keep peddling their destructive socialist green policies. What's even more screwed up is that they are up in arms about unemployment, but these rotting creatures are creating unemployment and upheaval for families by closing these plants down in the name of their leftist green religion. It makes me sick. Meanwhile, the biggest concern for Daniel Andrews is replacing the little green men on traffic lights because some bloody feminist group kicked up a stink that it was sexist. Goddamnit Every time I see that braindead cretin's deformed face bumbling its way through news interviews I can literally feel my IQ slipping away.

I just ordered a 45kg gas bottle - price has gone up $20 since I last ordered 3 months ago.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

We should all be going off grid.
Trouble is, at the moment (those with solar cells), when you get a power out, the solar systems have nothing to parallel to and go off as well in many cases.
Get the batteries and work out your usage rates.
Councils need to turn off street lights and larger companies their security lighting needs to go to infra red so you catch the felons in the dark.
No one seems to realise that if a felon wants to work in the dark he needs a light and if he wants to hide he needs a shadow to hide in - without lighting, there's no way hey can perpetrate their crimes.
No one wanders about in the dark anyway these days unless they are up to no good.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

One word... "Green"

It is a dirty filthy EVIL brown coal power plant. It is the scum of all human filth in respects to power generation and must be shut down!!!
Of course it's being shut down on idealology but there isn't any real plans. The plant is going to be turned into a green reserve, the excavation area is going to be turned into a lake and populated by fish for the locals to go fishing in. At least the hundreds of locals will have something to do to pass the time while looking for work

Victoria is currently building some wind farms (seen how reliable they are) but they may or may not be in operation before the plant shuts down next March. I personally believe that the plant should be shut down in time, maybe a decade or so after we've got the infrastructure to replace it in place.

I think that it closes in 2 weeks Colin - the company cites (as reasons) it's plan to focus on low carbon technology and (presumably) because they could not make enough bucks out of it with the current excess generation capability in Victoria.. As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with the Government, but who knows. Interesting snippet on reading is that the cost just to decommission and tidy up Hazelwood will be about 2x as much as the planned SA upgrade - nothing comes cheap in the power world.

from the Engie website:
" ENGIE in Australia announces it will close Hazelwood coal power generation station and the adjoining mine, in the State of Victoria, Australia. The closure will be effective at the end of March 2017.

The closure of Hazelwood is in line with ENGIE’s strategy to gradually end its coal activities. This is laid out in the Group’s transformation plan that aims at concentrating solely on low-carbon projects for power generation, renewable energy and natural gas. In 2016, ENGIE has already sold or closed coal assets which represent more than 5 GW of capacity.

Besides, Hazelwood power station has been operating in difficult market conditions, with lower electricity prices and a surplus of electricity supply in Victoria State.

.....

ENGIE also announces today that it is studying the possible sale of two of its power production assets in Australia: Loy Yang B coal power station and Kwinana gas power station.

ENGIE has a strong presence in the energy industry in Australia through its gas and wind-generating assets in South Australia, with a total of 2 GW of capacities. It is also developing or contracting wind and solar power generation across Australia. Simply Energy, its energy retailer, is approaching 600,000 electricity and gas accounts following organic growth of 75% during the last four years and is continuing to expand into the photovoltaic and battery storage market, while ENGIE Services develops cost-saving smart energy services and facilities management.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by glend

I watched the SA news conference yesterday and can't understand how spending all that money is not going to raise energy prices in SA. If people living there are prepared to pay (forever), for it then fine. It does seem like a knee jerk political reaction to shore up support, rather than an element of a national energy infrastructure initiative. Of course, there is no leadership at all on a national energy policy so it is hardly surprising that SA would try to go it alone.

prices will have to go up in the short term, but if we can get energy security and low carbon pollution into the future, maybe that will be a good outcome - could even result in significant new investment in the state and maybe some saleable IP, so it is not all bad news, even in the short term.

The alternative to more government inaction is to wait for the private companies that now own the system to do something - they have clearly indicated that they are more interested in making money than in providing a reliable service. For example, my understanding is that in the last SA brownout, the need for extra capacity was identified and the Pelican Point system was instructed to ramp up unused capacity. They refused because they did not have enough gas available at contracted rates and the market rules allowed them to refuse on that basis. So some of our electricity supplies came from the exorbitant spot market and load shedding was necessary. Presumably the supply companies did very nicely, but no-one else did. If a power system allows brownouts and unused capacity to co-exist, it needs to be changed.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Latest development, seems like the SA plans stirred the pot. All of a sudden, clean coal is forgotten in Canberra and everything is now gas - gas -gas. The PM has agreement from the gas producers to allocate more to the local market "as soon as possible". That will bring down gas and electricity prices - and gas company profits - so don't hold your breath.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

That will bring down gas and electricity prices - and gas company profits - so don't hold your breath.

The coalition would be very vulnerable at the next election if they allow our local gas to be sold overseas without reserving enough for domestic consumption. The incumbent politicians care about business but they care more about themselves, so I would expect a positive outcome for Australian consumers.

[Exfso (Peter)]

Problem with gas, apart from the obvious is that apparently Moomba that collects the natural gas from the Cooper and Eramunga basins is running out, I have heard that about 4 years time its reserves will nearly be depleted, so they will need to find gas elsewhere. I will stand to be corrected on this, but if it is the case, we are in deep poo. They did a good job selling most of it overseas and bugger the locals.
Yep and I would bet my left testicle that the poor public will be the ones to cop the cost. SA is broke so they cannot afford any expenditure of this magnitude. The mind boggles

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

Latest development, seems like the SA plans stirred the pot. All of a sudden, clean coal is forgotten in Canberra and everything is now gas - gas -gas. The PM has agreement from the gas producers to allocate more to the local market "as soon as possible". That will bring down gas and electricity prices - and gas company profits - so don't hold your breath.

Someone forgot to tell whoever it was on ABC radio this afternoon (Alan Tudge I think) "Clean coal this, clean coal that, clean coal the other" and "We must be agnostic about the source of secure cheap power. Gas, clean coal, clean coal, gas, coal, oh renewables will have a role to play"

I am exaggerating somewhat of course but clean coal got a mention in pretty much every sentence as did gas where about the only mention of renewables was when paired with words like Idealogical, unreliable, intermittant, unstable, blackout.

What I have found interesting this evening regards the gas "Crisis" meeting is that all we see is bursts to the effect of "They have committed to playing nice rather than banking the big fat profits that are available elsewhere". No mention of what this sop to us poor schmucks who's soverign resource is being plundered for profit is going to cost us or what potential stick was waved around to secure it.

I find it hard to believe that part of an industry (Mining) which was prepared to spend millions on a campaign to help to unseat a government which had the temerity to implement a new tax on them taking and selling a public resource for private profit (Even if they did manage to ensure it was engineered to cost them virtually nothing anyway) will be providing gas for sale for domestic consumption that they can make more profit on elsewhere without a carrot or a stick.

[Wavytone]

Speaking having been left out by stupid pollies eager to please exporters at any cost, read this:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-th...15-guydtp.html

And guess which party did it.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Conventional Moomba gas is winding down, but my understanding is that there are huge reserves of unconventional gas (CSG etc) in the Moomba region and elsewhere in SA. That issue is possibly addressed in the SA plan by giving financial incentives to landowners who allow gas extraction on their land

good link Wavy - at last we are discussing the real issue, artificial gas shortages, not red herrings like the unreliability of renewables or the cleanliness of supercritical coal.

expect a huge outcry opposing the SA plan. It shows a way to a low carbon future and it looks like it actually might be workable and at 1/4 the cost and 1/4 the emissions of a new supercritical coal generator - it must come as the worst possible horror to the coal lobby and their media outlets. They also have a huge problem with so many industry groups coming out and stating directly that there will be no private finance for new coal fired power plants. I just wonder if they have enough influence in Canberra to get the feds to invest some public money in one. It is hugely disappointing to think that Australia will not be able to cash in on all of the huge coal reserves that we have - but pretending otherwise is not helping anyone.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Which I have to say proves little apart from that both sides are equally able to cock things up.

The current question is, what have the coalition done about it since coming to power in 2013? IMO a government can only legitimately point the finger at the one preceding it, which in this case is the Abbott/Turnbull led coalition. Unti they realised there was a proper crisis on hand about all they did was guffaw about and blame the government before the government before and pass around lumps of coal in Canberra.