ANZAC Day
Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > Radio Astronomy and Spectroscopy
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 4.00 average.
  #21  
Old 09-12-2013, 03:06 PM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Nice work John! Cloudy here last night but I had a go anyway. There was a thin clear band in the SE and after waiting half an hour for it to pass over the nova position it had narrowed and I only got one rather sad cloud-affected sub.

Anyway, despite horrendous noise I added it to the series but it doesn't say much other than the Ha & Hb emission lines appear to exist! No weight should be put on any other lines showing in the spectrum unfortunately.

Looks like it might be cloudy again here tonight but I'll be ready if there is a break.

Cheers -
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (NCen2013, 03-08 Dec 2013 spectrum bars textsm.jpg)
200.0 KB39 views
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-12-2013, 09:29 PM
malclocke (Malc)
Registered User

malclocke is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 183
As I'm sure most of you have seen, Christian Buil has requested spectra of the nova for a database on the ARAS site. Below are the details on submitting your spectra for addition to the database, I'd like to encourage everyone to do so and prove to the northerners that we are up to the job!

Quote:
Hi all,

Nova Centauri 2013 is as important as the recent nova Del 2013 - a major
object. Because it is bright (but not very well placed in the sky), it is
(and should be!) easily observed with spectrographs by amateurs.

It is essential to not loose the data for future analysis and therefore
make an archive of all amateur spectra. We propose to open a special
page on this nova on the ARAS website for this reason.

Send your calibrated spectra with a maximum information about your
equipment with your first spectrum (telescope, spectrograph type, spectral
resolution, camera, location of the observartory - ideally GPS
coordinates - confidentiality of the location, ...).

Data taken with a slit spectrograph and spectral resolution equal
or up to R = 500 is highly recommended.

This is the condition for (1) providing a true scientific work with
well detailed spectra, (2) for reliable data (not dependent on
seeing, telescope focus, ...).

The SA spectra are especially usefull at the time of detection
to confirm the nature of the object, for example. But extract
valuable scientific data from SA is not an easy task. However, for
this campaign, we accept SA spectra on the archive for
discussions about performances. Also, because
the number of operationnal slit spectrograph seem small
in the southern hemisphere for the moment!

It is important to use the BeSS data format - see page nova Del:

http://www.astrosurf.com/aras/Aras_D...a-Del-2013.htm

or BeSS specifications details:

http://basebe.obspm.fr/basebe/Spec_spectres_BeSS_en.pdf

Then mail your FIT/ZIP file(s) to christian.buil_at_wanadoo.fr
to be added in ARAS data repository.

Christian
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-12-2013, 09:34 PM
malclocke (Malc)
Registered User

malclocke is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
Managed to get a few spectra tonight - still to process, but you can see a P Cygni profile at Ha.
12A/pixel with the Baader grating+Genesis.
Hi Ken,

Are you able to catch anything with an L200? With Terry out of action we are severely missing out on higher res data for this nova.

Malc
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:40 PM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by malclocke View Post
As I'm sure most of you have seen, Christian Buil has requested spectra of the nova for a database on the ARAS site. Below are the details on submitting your spectra for addition to the database, I'd like to encourage everyone to do so and prove to the northerners that we are up to the job!
Well ARAS won't be getting my wonky spectra to "discuss the limitations". Christian is a nice guy and the members of ARAS do some incredible work, but they are typical of amateurs when they get obsessed with the pursuit of excellence. Just like astrophotographers, make it seem as complex as possible in order to 'own' the field. The limitations of spectra like mine don't need discussion, they are well known. Every spectrum is useful to some degree as long as its limitations are recognised.

This sort of stuff is exactly what turns people off from engaging in spectroscopy. Obviously, all you are going to produce is junk unless you pay the big bucks for the hardware and engage with the complex software!

A much healthier approach is to encourage more people to engage in basic spectroscopy with Star Analysers & similar, and offer pathways to take it further if people are so inclined. Variable star astronomy is facing a similar watershed. There has been a big push for the accuracy offered by CCD photometry but like higher-res spectrometry it's an elite activity requiring decent equipment and a long learning curve. The number of visual observers has dropped dramatically (why bother?) and the grass roots from which CCD photometrists would otherwise naturally arise is evaporating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malclocke View Post
Hi Ken,

Are you able to catch anything with an L200? With Terry out of action we are severely missing out on higher res data for this nova.

Malc
We're definitely missing Terry!

Cheers -
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:54 AM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Cleared late, luckily! Here's my spectrum from tonight, SA100 grating with Canon 650D & 200mm lens on Vixen Polarie, 20 x 15 sec at ISO 6400, F/5.6. Very strong and gusty wind affected all subs.

Hydrogen lines growing stronger but still can't get much at the H-gamma line - pretty much at the edge of the camera response, maybe to do with altitude as I picked it up the one time I did an early morning session on it, when it was considerably higher.

Cheers -
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (NCen2013, 09 Dec 2013 spectrum.jpg)
120.1 KB22 views
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-12-2013, 03:32 AM
Jon's Avatar
Jon (Jonathan)
Registered User

Jon is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canberra
Posts: 558
Set the alarm but it's blanket clouds for me I'm afraid. Here are my stacked and corrected SA 100 spectra for Dec 6 and 7.

Cheers
Jonathan
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (image.jpg)
43.2 KB28 views
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-12-2013, 08:58 AM
malclocke (Malc)
Registered User

malclocke is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
Well ARAS won't be getting my wonky spectra to "discuss the limitations". Christian is a nice guy and the members of ARAS do some incredible work, but they are typical of amateurs when they get obsessed with the pursuit of excellence.
That's a shame Rob, you're spectra are some of the best I've seen produced. Would you submit them to a database if it wasn't run by ARAS?

Malc
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-12-2013, 09:03 AM
Merlin66's Avatar
Merlin66 (Ken)
Registered User

Merlin66 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,904
Typically, when you need the Spectra-L200 it's lying in bits on the bench! With all the component testing for the new batch, being done by Mark at JTW Astronomy, it hampers my own observing.
Having said that, I'll start re-assembling it tonight and set it up at least with the Genesis....
Got up last night, and was clouded out....
Let's not get overly concerned about ego's and "big toys" syndrome....we can all contribute to the best of our abilities...that should not stop us trying to produce the best data we can - the basic methodology is sound and should be used.

The latest news is that professional spectra have identified the nova as an FeII type....

ATEL #5639 ATEL #5639
Title: Spectroscopic observations of Nova Cen 2013
Author: L. Izzo (Sapienza Università di Roma and ICRANet), E. Mason
(INAF - Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste), L. Vanzi, J. M. Fernandez,
N. Espinoza, K. Helminiak (Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile),
M. della Valle (INAF - Osservatorio Astronomico di Capodimonte)
Queries: luca.izzo@gmail.com
Posted: 8 Dec 2013; 12:39 UT
Subjects:Optical, Nova
We report optical spectroscopy observations of the recent outburst of Nova
Cen 2013 = PNV J13544700-5909080, obtained with the 0.5 m telescope at
the Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile Observatory with the PUCHEROS
echelle spectrograph on 2013 December 6.33. The observations cover the
spectral range between 425.5 and 726.0 nm at a resolution of \sim 0.025
at 500 nm.
The observations shows typical features of Fe II spectra, with the Fe II
5169, which is blended with Mg I (2), as the brightest non-Balmer line.
We detect many other absorption lines and P-Cygni associated with Fe II
lines of the multiplets (74, 54, 49, 48, 46, 38, 37 and 27) and possible
multiplets (43, 41, 25 and 20) as well. We report also the presence of
lower ionization transitions as Ti II (70 69, and 39) and Cr II (44 and
30), and other transitions as Si II 6347 and 6371 AA, from detection of
their P-Cygni absorptions. The velocities measured from the P-Cygni profiles
for all these lines are v_{rad} \sim 408 +- 10 km/s. Similar velocities
are measured for the Na I doublet absorptions.
The H-alpha line shows a flat P-Cygni profile with absorption extending
up to -1300 km/s, while the Doppler broadening of the emission line extends
to +700 km/s. The profile is not structured and shows a triangular shape.
On the other hand, the P-Cygni profile of the H-beta is more sharp, with
minimum at around -450 km/s, showing an other possible minimum at -1200
km/s, which we however associate with the presence of Cr II (30), detected
also at 4824 and 4876 AA.
It is interesting to note that from the widths of the Na I doublet, we
have preliminarily estimated an E(B-V) = 0.11 +. 0.08 from Poznanski et
al. (MNRAS, (2012), 426, 1465) and E(B-V) = 0.14 from Munari & Zwitter,
(A&A, (1997), 318, 269), which suggest a low extinction and a not large
distance for the nova. We will continue to monitor the spectroscopic evolution
of the nova in the following weeks and suggest to continue to follow-up
the nova, particularly at different wavelengths.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-12-2013, 09:50 AM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by malclocke View Post
That's a shame Rob, you're spectra are some of the best I've seen produced. Would you submit them to a database if it wasn't run by ARAS?

Malc
Sorry Malc, what I meant was that ARAS won't be getting my spectra because I work only in jpegs, that's all. I wouldn't 'withhold' them.

The way ARAS approach things is that only spectra that can produce good, clean quantitative data are useful (pursuit of excellence). I disagree - we're only amateurs and we all have time, money & interest limitations that determine how far we're comfortable going with any branch of astronomy.

Low-res spectra with SA gratings can still be very useful qualitatively, regardless of whether they're in FIT/S or jpeg form, especially for identification purposes (eg recent CBET) or flagging changes.

Cheers -
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-12-2013, 02:04 AM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Tonight's spectrum of V1369 Cen (Nova Centauri 2013), moonlight-affected. Had to shoot early as clouds were building. SA100 grating with Canon 650D & 200mm lens on Vixen Polarie, 28 x 14 sec at ISO 1600, F/5.6. H-alpha emission line is getting stronger, FeII lines also appear stronger. Nova should be reddening visually. I could barely make it out naked eye because of moonlight and low altitude. Last night it was very clear naked-eye after moonset, probably not much different tonight.

Cheers -
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (NCen2013, 10 Dec 2013, 13-19 UT spectrum text.jpg)
122.4 KB27 views
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-12-2013, 06:46 AM
Merlin66's Avatar
Merlin66 (Ken)
Registered User

Merlin66 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,904
Rob,
Glad to see you managed to get another spectrum.
Clouded out again down here...
I have the Spectra-L200 set-up ready.....
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-12-2013, 02:26 PM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
Rob,
Glad to see you managed to get another spectrum.
Clouded out again down here...
I have the Spectra-L200 set-up ready.....
Good luck Ken, you must be champing at the bit!

Cheers -
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-12-2013, 08:12 PM
pvelez's Avatar
pvelez (Pete)
Registered User

pvelez is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,250
Where is Terry B? I hope he is on hols or something

My LISA is on its way back from France after some repairs to its guiding optics. When I mentioned the nova to the Shelyack guys they burst their boiler trying to get it back to me ASAP.

Great work team - hope to contribute in a week or 2

Pete
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:24 PM
Chochawker's Avatar
Chochawker (Malcolm)
Registered User

Chochawker is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 31
Hello everyone.

As my first post, I thought I would share the rough results from my first look at the nova.

This was captured at 3:20 am from Sydney using an SA100 and DMK 41 through a 10" Goto Dobsonian.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (NovaCentauri_calibrated.jpg)
74.6 KB33 views
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:52 PM
malclocke (Malc)
Registered User

malclocke is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvelez View Post
Where is Terry B? I hope he is on hols or something

My LISA is on its way back from France after some repairs to its guiding optics. When I mentioned the nova to the Shelyack guys they burst their boiler trying to get it back to me ASAP.

Great work team - hope to contribute in a week or 2

Pete
Yep, Terry is on holiday I believe, see http://spectro-aras.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=742

Hopefully your LISA will return soon and you can stand in

Malc
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:53 PM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chochawker View Post
Hello everyone.

As my first post, I thought I would share the rough results from my first look at the nova.

This was captured at 3:20 am from Sydney using an SA100 and DMK 41 through a 10" Goto Dobsonian.
Nice job Malcolm! Hope you can get a few more.

Cheers -
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:30 PM
Jon's Avatar
Jon (Jonathan)
Registered User

Jon is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canberra
Posts: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
Tonight's spectrum of V1369 Cen (Nova Centauri 2013), moonlight-affected. Had to shoot early as clouds were building. SA100 grating with Canon 650D & 200mm lens on Vixen Polarie, 28 x 14 sec at ISO 1600, F/5.6. H-alpha emission line is getting stronger, FeII lines also appear stronger. Nova should be reddening visually. I could barely make it out naked eye because of moonlight and low altitude. Last night it was very clear naked-eye after moonset, probably not much different tonight.

Cheers -
Nice work, Rob. The FeII at 5169 us as clear as day, now we know what it is.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:07 AM
malclocke (Malc)
Registered User

malclocke is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chochawker View Post
Hello everyone.

As my first post, I thought I would share the rough results from my first look at the nova.

This was captured at 3:20 am from Sydney using an SA100 and DMK 41 through a 10" Goto Dobsonian.
BOOM! That's quite a first post! Well done, hope we see more from you soon.

I've just finished my session for tonight, will post tomorrow once I've processed them.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:48 AM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,165
Mine from tonight (12:39, 11 Dec 2013 UT, or 11:39pm 11 Dec local time), getting harder with moonlight. Also cloud about - nova was sitting in a thin, relatively clear band of sky between the horizon and heavier cloud above.

SA100 grating with Canon 650D & 200mm lens on Vixen Polarie, 21 x 17 sec, ISO 6400, F/5.6. Nova at just under 2.5-deg altitude, imaged from White Cliffs, NSW, Australia.

Cheers -
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (NCen 2013, 11 Dec 2013, spectrum text.jpg)
119.7 KB16 views
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-12-2013, 04:00 AM
Jon's Avatar
Jon (Jonathan)
Registered User

Jon is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canberra
Posts: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by malclocke View Post
BOOM! That's quite a first post! Well done, hope we see more from you soon.

I've just finished my session for tonight, will post tomorrow once I've processed them.
Indeed! Nice work.

Here's mine from this morning - a single sub. I'll stack 12 and tidy up later today.

I'm still interested what the emission feature is around 4500 A, now we know it's not an He/N nova. I'll do some research.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (11 Dec.jpg)
199.6 KB25 views
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 08:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement