Lake Macquarie Council Installing 5609 LED Street Lights!

[pmrid (Peter)]

Accepting for the sake of argument that there is a legitimate need for street and park lighting, and accepting for the moment that the old sodium etc lights were dreadful, and accepting also that bright blue-tending LEDs are also a disaster, and of course accepting the orange is the new black, what are the alternatives to all of the above. How efficient, for example, is shielding of an otherwise offensive light? And for the bean-counters, how much does shielding skew the cost-benefit equation from the point of view of local governments?

Peter

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

what are the alternatives to all of the above.
Peter

Good questions Peter,
I'd put forth the idea of retrofitting (into existing sockets), limited spectrum LEDs, with integrated secure IOT based management with local sensors and nearby peer networking.

In simpler terms, a light that:
Has good watts to lumens ratio, a spectrum that is useful to accident avoidance, limited impact on local wildlife rythms, knows when to turn off when ambient light is sufficient (sun, full moon, other sources), turns off in the absence of vehicles, but is aware of incoming traffic via it's peers, has a range of intensity settings (not just on/off), soft start/soft off. Finally, all usage patterns are sent to a management system for constant analysis and optimisation.

In super simpler terms, the least amount of light needed under the circumstances unique to that individual light, is emitted by said light. At large scales, I believe the IOT management hardware could be had for an extra $10-50 per bulb.

I don't even think anything I've listed above is original. It's had to have been done somewhere already.

[silv (Annette)]

good questions.
One has to word the argument really carefully. But in the end it's a public service and has to comply with environmental protection considerations.
From the point of view of the affected fauna: if one species alters their reproduction cycle due to unshielded blue light, either their prey or their predators are affected as well. Altering that food chain in cities as well as in more rural areas should come at a measurable cost for humans, too.

So I wouldn't stop at the question of cost for a proper bulb hood - that'd be arguing our "opponents' " side. I would explain and list the cost from the EP pov. And add the hood-cost comparison only as an afterthought.

Dunedin is lucky. Their museum director (now retired I think) is into aurora photography. Beautiful photos! Maybe astronomy as well. I assume, from his role as director he knows all the current council members on a first name basis and knows how to "deal" with them, how to explain stuff so it makes sense to non-astronomers.

Could be invaluable to ask him whether and how he influenced/lobbied for particular test LED models.

[silv (Annette)]

Great thoughts, Andy.
Basic management in cities is done already with old lights, according to their abilities. Not dimming, of course, but on/off and noticing when a bulb failed.
So there might be hardware infrastructure already in the ground to do more detailed management.

Which would make IOT over the air superfluous. And that would save the council fights with anti-IOT citizens.
Due to decades of lobbying and disinformation tactics from the mobile industry, not nearly enough studies have been performed on the affect of the various frequencies on cell types.
Polluting the environment with 21.000 IOT elements, the # of street lights in my city, is a big deal and would have to be thoroughly investigated. Especially if all the public rubbish bins and whatnot go on-air, as well.

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by silv

So there might be hardware infrastructure already in the ground to do more detailed management.
Which would make IOT over the air superfluous. And that would save the council fights with anti-IOT citizens.

Fair point As the EM radiation vs. cells debate is far from resolved (with genuinely bad consequences at certain ends of the gamut), how about networking via power frequency modulation? A basic, low bandwidth, highly robust iteration of Ethernet Over Power could link lights and accessories over long distances This would offer no EM pollution and minimal modification to the existing infrastructure.

[Wavytone]

I'd really like to see the councils realise they could switch off streetlights in residential street after about 10pm, leaving them on only around major intersections and arterial roads. There are examples in the UK where this is now the norm with no adverse consequence, and a huge saving in electricity.

Hint: there aren't any pedestrians late at night.

The result is stunning - you can actually see the milky way in areas where that was previously impossible.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by silv

good questions.
Dunedin is lucky. Their museum director (now retired I think) is into aurora photography. Beautiful photos! Maybe astronomy as well. I assume, from his role as director he knows all the current council members on a first name basis and knows how to "deal" with them, how to explain stuff so it makes sense to non-astronomers.

Could be invaluable to ask him whether and how he influenced/lobbied for particular test LED models.

Not retired, still going...and he "dealt with them" by chairing an advisory panel specifically set up in 2016 on pressure from various groups in the astro and dark skies community to provide recommendations to council (DCC) on the proposed LED streetlight rollout. I had the great privilege to be on said panel myself (representing the local astro community as that would have conflicted with Ian's role as chair), alongside (and this was absolutely critical), representatives of other stakeholders in the community: people with disabilities, wildlife tour operators, the police, biologists, and scientists investigating the effects of blue light on the (human) circadian rhythm. The panel got to work and produced a set of recommendations to the DCC, which were adopted to an extent, but notably including the 3000K colour temp. It took the best part of 2 years but hey. I'm mildly enthusiastic about living in a city which at the very least, appears to be willing to listen.

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by N1

I'm mildly enthusiastic about living in a city which at the very least, appears to be willing to listen.

Damn good to hear. Actually, I've never heard of such a story anywhere else myself. At least there's a precedence for good outcomes regarding a council.

[Wavytone]

The problem with a city like Sydney is we have 30 councils each determined to do their own thing. More when you count the extended urban area to Wollongong, Gosford and Blue Mountains.

The notion of getting agreement from all of them is inconceivable - the only way would be a single body like IPART to push for adherence to a uniform lighting code. That has been tried before... and decades before any noticeable is visible in the sky from say Katoomba.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

The problem with a city like Sydney is we have 30 councils each determined to do their own thing. More when you count the extended urban area to Wollongong, Gosford and Blue Mountains.

The notion of getting agreement from all of them is inconceivable - the only way would be a single body like IPART to push for adherence to a uniform lighting code. That has been tried before... and decades before any noticeable is visible in the sky from say Katoomba.

For a big city, astronomy has next to no relevance (but should not be ignored completely). Main focus should be on health concerns and light trespass, and perhaps wildlife. Besides better street lighting, a council that accepts that LP is a problem will be more likely to try to establish some limits around what the private sector is allowed to do. And that's where the real problem lies. The Bunnings or servo down the road is much more concerning than the street light out front, IMHO. For astronomy, it's the surrounding rural areas that stand to benefit from reduced light spill rather than the city itself. This will be true for cities of any size.

[Wavytone]

The problem with that kind of thinking is that applied across the board we’d have no parks, no open spaces - not even trees - just wall-to-wall tar roads, car parks, blocks of apartments, shopping centres, hospitals and schools.

And that pretty much sums up some parts of Sydney already - it’s clearly what will happen if developers like Meriton are given free reign.

The difficulty with that model is there is nothing for people to do in leisure time - short of jumping in a car and driving for hours to some hopelessly overcrowded beach or patch of grass. But then according to some, leisure is a waste of time. And it becomes reality for many because to go anywhere nice takes so bloody long - and the cost - you don’t, and instead stay at home in front of the TV getting fat & lazy.

If you want to live like that I suggest go to any of dozens of cities in India or China where the environment has been totally destroyed - and that is the norm - and find out what’s wrong with it. The neglect of the environment there is so bad the sun is not visible by day - the air is a grey murk that tells you its daylight. And no moon, no stars.

It’s like that for many hundreds of kilometres, and there are real consequences for vegetation, trees, agricultural crops. There are no birds to be seen or heard. No animals either, other than those in cages being force fed.

That is the end result from people who think like you do.

The night sky is equally part of the environment. If you don’t start to care about it’s destruction you’ll realise one day astronomy has been destroyed too.

[silv (Annette)]

Extraordinary, N1/Mirko!

I'm mildly enthusiastic about living in a city which at the very least, appears to be willing to listen.

"a city" is made of people, it's not an anonymous soulless concrete building.
You were a soul in that city's commission and the museum director was another, and, and, and.

It pays off to engage, apparently. Put cynicism aside and be "we, the people" kind of thing?

I'm struggling with that concept. Cynicism is much more comfortable for me, too... I should pr'bly engage and be one of the souls in "We, the people of Rostock". Like you did in Dunedin. For the benefit of generations of stargazers and aurora chasers.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Sorry Nick & Annette, I wasn't being cynical. I should qualify what I said perhaps. I think astro absolutely should be possible from your yard/balcony etc wherever that might be! I too resent having to drive in order to enjoy nature (incl. the night sky). I too have cursed Sydney's light dome many a time (and those of Malmö and Copenhagen, which can be seen from Germany across the Baltic Sea). But if you're going to convince the general population of the importance of minimising light pollution, believe me, advocating what is generally perceived as a nerdy & likeable but ultimately niche hobby as your main reason is not going to cut it. We've had to deal with that problem ourselves and were very careful to avoid (or at least mitigate) the kind of "your hobby vs my security" tangent that seems inevitable in this discussion. People and governments must understand that the problem is much more serious than not being able to see some galaxy. It's about your health and mine, it's about the general environment which are being disrupted & damaged. And those problems are very real. Fix them, and (sub)urban astronomy is bound to improve as well.

[silv (Annette)]

Yes. You're right.

Do you think the commission's report is online available on the council's website?
Do you know which lamp model(s) they went with since the council's decision in 2016 for testing? Cartoon character models with a tiny hat, for example?

Thanks again for your encouraging story.

[AndyG (Andy)]

I'm spending the next few weeks in Nara, Japan, and have paid attention to the street lights since reading this thread.

Much of Nara is world heritage listed, and as such, the ward office has paid attention to a few things. Most buildings are limited to 7 floors tall, and lighting is restricted. The street lights in residential areas resemble aftermarket reversing lights on a ute. 3-4000k, 8x LED modules, about the size of a pack of ciggies.

They don't blind anyone, and encourage your eyes to adapt. I suspect it's mostly to prevent pedestrian injury from cars. Personal safety is far less an issue, as crime has a distinctly different flavour here.

Now for the clouds to clear so I can pull out the little 102mm Mak we brought...

[pjphilli (Peter)]

Does anyone know what the spectrum of these led street lights is? My current light pollution filter does a good job of notching out the local mercury street light and further afield highway sodium lights. I fear that the led lights will have a broad spectrum and render my lpf useless. Hope they are not anything like these horrible bright white led car headlights that have come into vogue.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by silv

Yes. You're right.

Do you think the commission's report is online available on the council's website?
Do you know which lamp model(s) they went with since the council's decision in 2016 for testing? Cartoon character models with a tiny hat, for example?

Thanks again for your encouraging story.

The panel's recommendations have not been published (and it's not for me to do so), but the Astro Society's Dark Skies Group provided the input below, which, in large parts, became the back bone for the panel's recommendations. These would obviously be modified to some extent to work for your area, but you get the idea - treat them as suggestions. To be read in the context of a proposed change from sodium vapour to LED street lighting. Note also that these are over 2 years old, and the current understanding is that even 3,000K is really too high. If you think there was no way for these to be accepted by 100% a) as being the panel's ultimate recommendations, and b) by council, with a commitment to act, you're right. Some parts did make it through that process however.


Objectives:

I. Downward total light flux must not exceed current levels, horizontal and above light flux must be reduced substantially.

II. Amount of blue light entering residential properties must not exceed pre LED levels.

III. Total emitted amount of blue light must be minimised.

IV. The public must be informed and given the opportunity for comment and its concerns must be addressed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Implementation:

1. Establish lighting zones throughout the city based on District Plan, and in addition, zones that should enjoy particular protection, and define maximum outdoor lighting colour temperature, threshold values for "obtrusive lighting" and other restrictions for each. The colour temperature limit shall not be more than 3,000K in any zone other than industrial, where up to 4,000K may be permitted. Notwithstanding the above, the colour temperature in each zone shall be as low as practicable;

2. All outdoor lighting must use fully shielded downward pointing luminaires;

3. The colour temperature of any outdoor lighting must be minimised;

4. The amount of time any outdoor lighting is used must be minimised. Default state of lighting in outdoor areas not in use must be "off". Achievable for instance by time and motion control;

5. Enact regulations that stipulate items 1-4 must be followed by the private sector;

6. All street lighting to adhere to stipulations under items 1-4. The range of luminaires being considered for street lighting to be expanded to include amber, narrow spectrum LEDs, CT of 2,000-2,200K such as KIM Lighting Warp9 amber, TypeX amber [...];

7. Any newly installed street lighting technology must allow installation of smart technology for dimming and on-demand lighting, including but not limited to motion detection and time control;

8. Circulate LED information pack approved by the Dark Sky Advisory Panel. Contents must inform of current research on LEDs and their effects on human and environmental health;

9. Implement a permanent internal dark skies unit to consult with major stakeholders on major lighting decisions, to marshall items 1-7, to provide updates when necessary on item 8, and to implement and administer a public feedback system, wherby the the public can insist that any obtrusive lighing be turned off or shielded and other lighting matters be addressed;

10. Promote dark sky protection legislation at national level.

[silv (Annette)]

You're a star! Thanks a million, Mirko.