This may be an unnecessary distraction for those of us who are fans of Newtonian/Einsteinian Gravitational theory & get enormous pleasure from observing space-time from our own backyards. But - how on earth do you/we counter the increasing amount pseudoscience including the pre-medieaval flat earth argument when the bunch of clowns promulgating this nonsence won't ever accept irrefutable scientific argument? Or should we even bother?
So more of a general queston: how do you you/we approach pseudoscience/conspiracy theory and the bogus arguments used when such parties refuse to offer any plausible evidence for their even less plausible hypotheses.
For what it's worth, I think the power of social media and the pure gullibility of certain people who will refute any science on the basis of a few google seraches warrants challenge (before real science gets buried under a meleé of misinformation, conspiracy and heresay). I think 100 years ago- 50 years ago - even 25 years ago, this question would be laughed at, but given the power that social media has, we really do live in challenging times.
Spot (unscientific) poll:
How should the scientific community respond to outrageous, hyperbolic pseudoscientific claims by other parties who refute established astrophysical theory/law*?
1) Ignore them - like all quacks they will go away sooner or later
2) Challenge them with demonstrable science fact when possible
3) Unsure - how do you convince those who will never be convinced?
4) Maybe we need to look into the psychology of why people have always countered proveable science since the year dot - and address that?
5) Leave them alone - they might be right!
(*given that all astrophysical law may be changed in the future on the back of demonstrable, acceptable, peer-reviewed and testable evidence and thus assuming current accepted theory as it stands today.)
Everything in science is a theory created by mankind, why anything is here is still a mystery, more theories there. I hope that science is wrong and the universe doesn't cease to exist or to never have existed when I am gone.
Once someone has formed a belief presenting them with facts will not sway them.
Flat Earthers are not the only folk who believe nonsense in fact in my view a large percentage of the population world wide believe in unsupportsble nonsense that has no factual basis and is demonstratably incorrect.
In addition to various religious beliefs you have astrology, tarot cards, fortune telling, communicating with the dead, voo doo, witch craft, life after death, reincarnation, belief in demons, angels, devils ...and that is just the start of a long list.
And just think in the USA nearly half of the population take the history laid out in the bible as being literally correct.(this figure may be as low as 25%).
Check out the creationist museum with the life size models of dinasours with saddles on them.
They may believe the Earth is flat as well if they believe dinasours were ridden by humans.
All you can do is be happy if you have a somewhat normal realistic view of the world.
Alex
I have a dear long term friend who says she does not trust science. As part of a long discussion I pointed to her mobile phone and said "see, there is the evidence ...you know science works." "But that's technology" she replied.
I realised that someone who was not aware that technology is applied science was a hopeless case and I gave up.
This same friend says she is careful about what she believes and checks things out by doing "research" on the internet!
I think that the automatic confirmation bias performed by some news feeds (ie you show interest, then what you are fed is filtered to suit your interest) is a real worry when so many of us are too poorly educated to even understand what a balanced view is.
Ian
Having had respectful discussions with some conspiracy theorists the one thing I’ve learned is that you cannot win. You can not argue with the mentality of:
The government controls all information and what is “leaked” out of the science institutions and you cannot trust the government because they want to control us and herd us like sheep. What you say is just government lies. I have watched these YouTube videos...
Ian ask her how she is at Glossolalia.
A friend, a tarot card reader, has one of those old devices with a plasma wand, like a light bulb with electrical disturbances...well I arrive one day and here he is running it up and down his arms.
What are you doing I ask.
Cleaning the bad spirits out of my aura.
He believes it and that tarot cards really work.
And a most capable man. He could rebuild your car, motor hear box the wiring and yet he buys such nonsense.
Also a fantasic martial artist.
Years ago when there were soeakers in the Sydney Domain there was a flat earth guy and I had many pleasant times arguing with him...and none of the airlines would fly him on a course that would prove he was right which he presented as clear evidence that "they" were keeping the truth hidden.
Alex
I..and none of the airlines would fly him on a course that would prove he was right which he presented as clear evidence that "they" were keeping the truth hidden.
Alex
That's because by flying Great Circle Tracks they are DISPROVING Flat Earth nonsense.
I had a visitor to our long-gone Astronomy Group, who wrote the Astrology column for a well-know, ladies magazine.
I was explaining to her how because of the Earth's long-term wobble, the constellation where no longer where they used to be, so the basis of Astrology was now longer correct. She thought from her charts, that Jupiter was in Leo. I showed her Jupiter and a chart of Leo and she was able to see for herself that her information was not correct.
So as I thought I was converting her, she turned to me and said: "So how do you account for the fact the Leos are such warm hearted people?".
I gave up. I could not continue such a conversation.
I had a visitor to our long-gone Astronomy Group, who wrote the Astrology column for a well-know, ladies magazine.
I was explaining to her how because of the Earth's long-term wobble, the constellation where no longer where they used to be, so the basis of Astrology was now longer correct. She thought from her charts, that Jupiter was in Leo. I showed her Jupiter and a chart of Leo and she was able to see for herself that her information was not correct.
So as I thought I was converting her, she turned to me and said: "So how do you account for the fact the Leos are such warm hearted people?".
I gave up. I could not continue such a conversation.
Most men do not realise how many ladies are into astrology because they close up if they detect you are not into it.
But if you say something like " I bet you are a leo or the like and then play guess what star sign you each are ...well things go rather well in most cases....so I am told.
Alex
But you might upset Atuin the Great Turtle or frighten the 4 elephants and end up throwing us off.
GUARDS GUARDS!
Pete
Part of my mission is to desex Atuin to prevent its predicted mating and there by preventing disruption and destruction of our flat earth.
We dont know Atuins sex so we need to take instruments to cover what presumably will be one or the other.
The elephants are the main problem mainly because of the difficulty of eliminating all mice from the many provisions my expedition must take...it is ot a myth that mice upset elephants ...we dont know why and that is indeed the next mystery to work upon when I return from what hopefully will be a sucessful mission.
Alex
Give up folks - these people simply will not modify their whacko beliefs, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Moon landings? Nah! - Conspiracy involving over 400,000 tight-lipped NASA employees!
September 11, JFK assassination, chem trails (!) Roswell, Harold Holt, etc etc.
Some people choose to believe bizarre stuff rather than simple reality.
Many of my family are religious, and really seem to believe that the Earth was created 5000 years ago. Shame Noah left the dinosaurs behind, otherwise they'd be here today!
Dean
Last edited by deanm; 06-01-2018 at 03:23 PM.
Reason: Spulling!
Wow he raised $8000 via croud funding and is going to run for govna of Californya.
Maybe my idea has merit...
Anyone care to set up a croud funding campainge please...the basis is this... I plan to move into an old mine shaft and we dig through to the other side and need cash for digging gear.
Remainds me of the clothes for animals campainge. ..a lady unsolicited offered to donate $40,000 to the cause...its scarey really.
The only question is do I look too normal to folk?
Alex
Bloody Flat Earthers et al
