Beginner looking for a second scope with goto

[gibovski (MICHAEL)]

Hi All,

Me and my wife are fairly new to the hobby and interested in spending more time observing cool things and less time attempting to find them and track them. We also want to get into some simple planetary and moon photography (maybe deep space down the line but that would be a while away).

Currently we have a meade 70mm refractor scope and love observing the moon but struggle a bit with planets mostly due to the magnification required to view them and the associated tracking issues with a manual tripod.

I'm keen on the Meade LX65 6" Mak-Cassegrain Telescope due in part to the fact that we can mount both our scopes on the mount, have a wide view and zoomed view and also use one for viewing and the other for photos.

So the questions I have are.
1. Will this goto mount track planets smoothly enough for long exposure photos?
2. Will this mount happily hold a 70mm refractor and 150mm cassegraine?
3. Will a goto mount mean I'll actually spend more time viewing and less time searching?
4. Will the 150mm cassegraine be noticably better/clearer/zoomier than the 70mm refractor?
5. Am I looking at the right equipment? Or are there better alternatives out there for my current stage in the hobby?

Sorry for the long post.
Any help to save me from making a costly mistake will be greatly appreciated.

[Startrek (Martin)]

Hmm...
What’s your budget $1000, $2000,$3000 or $10,000+ ??
If your looking a good visual kit now with capabilities to do lunar and planetary imaging and then Deep Sky imaging down the track then IMHO the best all round scope to do all of the above at a budget cost would be a newtonian reflector with a focal ratio of f5 or f6 on a equatorial mount
Deep Sky imaging is best captured on an equatorial mount ( EQ mount )
I solely use newtonian reflectors for visual observing (Skywatcher 12” Goto dob ) and imaging ( Bintel GSO 6” f6 newt and Bintel 8” f5 newt )
So IMO the best all round budget kit would be a Bintel 6” f5 newt on a Skywatcher HEQ5 mount ( approx cost under $2,000 , less eye pieces and imaging gear ) This is a great entry level kit to achieve all of your beginner requirements
Skywatcher mounts are Goto and use a Synscan handcontroller to control the mount / navigate the night sky. You can also use EQMOD program to control the mount via your laptop either locally or remote or other software packages. Skywatcher EQ mounts are very popular for both beginner, intermediate and experienced astronomer and Astrophotographer , low cost, excellent performance and well supported in Australia which is very important
If your budget is significantly higher say $5,000 plus then there are endless options available which other IIS folk could offer some suggestions
At the end of the day if want to observe and image ( especially long exposure Astrophotography) you are better off using an equatorial mount ( not an Alt Az mount )
Hope the above is of some help and hope others can offer their advice as well
PS: Please note I’m not anti refractor telescopes at all, they are great scopes , I just started with newts as a beginner and never changed , they are simply the best all rounder scope at a budget cost ( biggest bang for the buck )
Good Luck !!

[gibovski (MICHAEL)]

Hey Startrek,
Thanks for the info. I'm after something that is portable/ish as I want to use it at home and transport it to my caravan on the coast where there is very little light pollution and the night sky is mesmerising. So I figured a dob wasn't practical?
Budget is as low as is practical to get something I'm not going to be disappointed with, that will tick my wish list boxes and won't end up being something I will want to get rid of. I really want this to be my/a forever portable field scope. Less than 2k is my target.
You mention equatorial mounts, are these, or can they be goto equiped? Is equatorial the only way to do long exposures.
What are newtonians? Are they any non-cassegraine reflectors? The sales sites rarely mention newtonian... I don't see many goto reflector packages on sales sites.
Do you use a goto system? Is it all it promises?

[sunslayr (David)]

Well If you want something long term, an eq mount with goto is the way to go, they allow you to do long exposure astrophotography without field rotation (assuming you are polar aligned ). It is possible to put an alt az mount on a wedge if you want to go that route, I know you can get one for the nexstar scts, not sure if you can for the LX65.

[Startrek (Martin)]

Have a look at Bintel’s website , they have 6” or 150mm f5 and f6 newtonian reflectors
You really want a Goto equatorial mount like a Skywatcher HEQ5 suited to the above telescope to do long exposure Astrophotography ( and visual as well ) This set up is fairly portable
Goto equatorial mounts are extremely accurate in finding objects once your “polar aligned “
You will have to learn how to set up an equatorial mount which requires some level of understanding about the night sky and movement of stars etc ..
Cassegrain telescopes are for a advanced users not beginners
Cheers

[Startrek (Martin)]

In regard to learning the night sky quickly , download Stellarium ( free) on your laptop. It’s a fantastic planetarium which provides a live map of the night sky 365 nights a years at any time.
Stellarium can also be used to provide telescope control your mount using another software called EQMOD ( also free ) directly from your laptop nearby to the telescope mount thereby eliminating the Synscan handcontroller. It only works on Skywatcher branded EQ Goto mounts ( eg HEQ5 mount )
I recently wrote procedures for this telescope control using Stellarium and EQMOD
Cheers

[astro744]

There is no one telescope that does it all and if you stay with the hobby you will more than likely find yourself either owning at one time or holding on to multiple telescopes, each better suited for a particular application. You will also realise in time that the most astrophotography targets can be captured with a visual setup but best results are achieved with a dedicated astrophotography setup and the most vital component of the latter is the mount.

In answer to your questions.

1. A GOTO system whether EQ or Alt-Az will track planets smoothly for photography or what is more common now, video capture of multiple frames which are then stacked. Planets are bright and the field rotation of an Alt-Az mount is not going to cause you any significant issues.

2. If your 70mm refractor is under 3kg and of short design it will be an ideal pair for the LX65 with 6” Mak-CAS. You will get wide field low power and narrow field high power simultaneously. A long tube 70mm may foul the mount when turned up so it depends on the focal length of your 70mm refractor.

3. Yes and No. Yes in that a GOTO to system once probably aligned will find your target and then keep it centred until you are ready to move to the next target. No in that if you do not align properly to start with, your GOTO will not be pointing in the right direction when it tells you it is on target. Note having a short wide field operating in parallel will mean the target may be spotted (if bright enough) in the smaller ‘scope first and then you simply centre the target using the hand controller buttons to move your telescope in the correct direction. Note GOTO includes tracking and ability to move from target to target. GOTO is available to an EQ or Alt-Az mount. You can get tracking only on an EQ mount equipped with a motor on the RA axis which will keep the target centred if your mount is properly polar aligned; (for visual this alignment takes almost no time even for portable setups). GOTO alignment takes a little longer to get spot on and to avoid frustration. (The target could be just outside of field but you don’t know this because you have no other reference).

4. Yes. You have a 4.5x increase in brightness. This is significant. Magnification increase with suitable eyepiece is also significant. Note the 6” Mak-CAS is 150mm f12 with 1800mm focal length, not 150mm f10 with 1900mm focal length (doesn’t make sense!) as reported by one local vendor.

5. I would recommend visiting a store that has a showroom and knowledgeable staff such as Bintel if you are in the Sydney area at any time soon. (Difficult with Covid). I’m not familiar with the vendors in VIC or any other state. On this (or any other forum) you may get 10 different suggestions from 10 different people.

Personally I am a visual observer and even though I have suitable mounts and suitable telescopes for astrophotography, I just don’t want to spend my time under the stars doing that. As for GOTO I look at that as a GPS for the car. If I know where I’m going and know how to get ther I don’t bother with a GPS. Even if I’m not sure I follow a map or follow my nose. I find it more enjoyable that just arriving at the destination not knowing how I got there. This holds more true for the stars and over time I remember the location of my favourite targets and test myself each season when they come around again. Each individual is different and many cannot live without their GOTO and enjoy that just as much. I prefer printed charts and the stars above.

Another alternative is PUSH-TO which shows where your telescope is pointed on a moving map display on an iPad or phone using an app. This works well especially in the daytime as I found a couple of times now Sirius, Rigel, Jupiter using the Sun and Venus as a two star alignment. (Being careful not to expose any optics when pointing at the Sun nor look through at the time). Note this is normally a custom built setup of various components as most manufacturers only offer GOTO.

The LX65 looks a very capable setup for what you want to do being relatively portable. You mention the 6” Mak-CAS but it is also available as a 6” ACF SCT. Not sure it’s worth the price difference and if contemplating the ACF then I would look at the 8” version or another 8” SCT for a bit more aperture on DSOs which need as much light as they can get.

I’m not a big fan of full electronic telescopes for once the battery is dead (or worse if electronics fail) you then have no manual override. A simple Newtonian on an EQ mount (if you want tracking) would be preferable. I started with (and still have) a 6” f5.5 on a German Equatorial Mount. The only downside is that the eyepiece can get to awkward angles but there are ways around this. A Dob can be more convenient in this regard but if small can mean bending over all the time to view anything.

If and when astronomy clubs offer star parties again (covid free times) the I recommend going to as many as you can and looking through as many telescopes (and eyepieces) as you can to get a feel for what each can and cannot do and what you like or do not like.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!

[Tulloch (Andrew)]

I had a look at the Meade LX65 6" Mak-Cass you mentioned here, it's a 6" f/12 scope on an alt/az goto mount.
https://www.ozscopes.com.au/meade-lx...telescope.html

IMHO, this would be a really good system to start on the moon and planets. In order to see the planets well, you really need a long focal length, and the 1800mm you get on this scope will be excellent. Alt/az means that you don't need to spend a lot of time on polar alignment, all you need are a couple of bright stars and you are away! The tracking means that once you are pointing at the planet, it will stay in the field of view for a long time - you might need to nudge it slightly every couple of minutes or so, but it will stay there.

I myself started with a 2nd hand Celestron Evolution 6" (an excellent mount if the budget will stretch that far) and have since upgraded to the 9.25" version (which is easy with this mount, just attach the new tube) and it's great for taking images of the planets and moon, but not so good for DSOs. Check out my page here for what is possible with alt/az mounts and a bit of experience.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=188603

Don't forget to check out the used market, you can usually find a bargain there - I bought my scope on eBay, there are a few options right now (if you don't mind travelling and getting a COVID test ).
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=188342
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/well...ras/1265181651

My first scope was a horrible manual Newtonian reflector which was terrible to use (the AstroMaster 130), but when I upgraded to the Celestron Evolution Goto scope, my enjoyment increased exponentially.

Good luck

[astro744]

Yes this is the vendor that needs to correct its description of the telescope. 150mm, f10 with 1900mm focal length does not compute.

The 5” (127mm) is f15 with 1900mm focal length but the extra aperture of the 6” will help with the fainter objects and resolution. Not a huge difference up perceivable.

The mount is a nice in concept with the ability to attach a second tube assembly easily for a wide field complement to the 1800mm primary OTA a very nice feature. Of course this can be done with other systems with all sort of mounting rails available.

I agree this could be your planetary/lunar telescope with enough aperture to see the brighter globular clusters and planetary nebulae. It is quite portable too but you are relying on full electronics to move it around as far as I can tell, (as with many other telescopes sold today). It does seem a good choice as either first or second telescope that if looked after will last as long as the electronics can be supported and if the mount fails you could always detach the OTA and use on another mount.

You’ll be shopping for eyepieces next and something around 12 to 8mm for planets would be great giving you 150x to 225x. A 24mm would give you 75x and 15mm will give you 120x. You can do it with a zoom if you prefer. On nights of exceptional seeing you can go between 257x and 300x with a 7mm or 6mm eyepiece or a quality Barlow. Perhaps if you get this telescope start another thread on eyepiece choices; there will be as many responses as there are eyepieces available.

[gibovski (MICHAEL)]

Thanks for all the advice all.
Tulloch, those photos are awesome. I especially like the ISS.

What I seem to be hearing is that equatorial mounts are better for long exposures for deep space but can be more fickle to setup correctly.

At this stage I'm more interested in ease of use than the potential use for deep space photography. I just want it to be quick and easy so I'll use it more and it won't be a chore to get it out and see some stuff.

The second hand market doesn't seem much cheaper than the new market so obviously well looked after, quality stuff holds it's value well.

My other refractor scope is quite long, so I'm a little concerned it may foul the mount if I go for the LX65. Hopefully my local retailer has one in the showroom so I can check it out...

It was mentioned that cassegrains are for advanced users not beginners. Why is this? Is there some complexity or maintenance required that I'm not aware of?

[Tulloch (Andrew)]

Thanks, I don't know if you will use the old refractor any more, you can see what typical objects will look like through eyepieces/cameras on this website. Just insert your aperture (150mm) and focal length (1800mm), choose a target and an eyepiece and it will show you what to expect.

https://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php


I don't know why it says that cassegrains are for advanced users, maybe because they work best when properly collimated? But to start out with, it should be fine.