#1  
Old 31-12-2020, 10:21 AM
Tulloch's Avatar
Tulloch (Andrew)
Registered User

Tulloch is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 488
Starting on DSO viewing/imaging

Hi all, since beginning on my AA journey, my main interest has been (and still is) the planets, and my equipment is pretty much been tailored for planetary imaging. However, now that planetary season is over, I'm interested in going across to the Dark Side and imaging some DSOs. Galaxies are my main interest right now, but I might get interested in bright nebulae also. I have dipped my toe in the water already using my current setup to get a not terrible image of NGC 1566 using my Evolution (altaz) mount, C9.25" SCT, Meade f/6.3 reducer and (unmodified) Canon 700D.
https://www.cloudynights.com/gallery...maged-1732020/

Obviously the alt/az mount makes this all much more difficult, so 6 months ago I purchased a second hand Celestron CGEM (I) mount off IIS, and have plans on using this to try some DSO imaging in the off season. I have a few questions about using it as I am going back to almost complete newbie status, especially as it relates to polar alignment (which I've never done ) and choice of accessories. A few issues I have are:

- The C9.25" and C6" SCTs I own have CG5 dovetails, and the CGEM mount only supports CGE. I have 2 options, buy a CGE-CG5 adapter for US$120 so I could use both OTAs, or just buy a CGE dovetail for the C9.25" for about A$70 and only use the larger OTA. Is there any advantage in using the 6" SCT?

- I cannot see Octantis from my backyard, there is a huge tree on the nature strip and I cannot get it cut back (despite numerous requests to the Council). I note that the CGEM mount has something called All-Star Alignment where all I need to see is a few bright stars, is this really how it works?

- The OTAs I have are all "slow", but I'm looking at adding another f/6.3 reducer in series to reduce the focal ratio/length further and turn my 9.25" SCT into a 775mm f/3.3 - is this necessary?

- I don't have a guider, how long can I image without one? I reckon I could turn my ASI224MC planetary camera into a guide camera, but I would need some sort of guide scope, or an off-axis guider - what is best here?

- Filters? I have a Baader Neodymium Moon and Skyglow filter, but is a UHC filter necessary to start with?

What else am I missing?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by Tulloch; 31-12-2020 at 11:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 31-12-2020, 11:32 AM
sunslayr (David)
Registered User

sunslayr is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Perth
Posts: 209
1.I think you can use the f6.3 reducer on the c6 to get a 945mm focal length which is ideal for small to medium dsos and is a little easier on the mount.

2. Yes but it may not be accurate enough you may wish to use phd2 drift alignment or D.A.R.V alignment if you can see the meridian in the north (for the southern hemisphere)

3. I don't think that will give you good results, there is a f3.3 reducer but it's only for eaa.

4.It is possible to go without a guider but it is not recommended without a premium mount at these long focal lengths, an OAG would be ideal and should be possible with your 224mc.

5. No filters are necessary but if you have significant light pollution you might find the contrast improvement worth it for the compromised star colours.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31-12-2020, 11:45 AM
Camelopardalis's Avatar
Camelopardalis (Dunk)
Drifting from the pole

Camelopardalis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,429
Hi Andrew, I'll try to give you some useful pointers - although take with a pinch of salt

First of all, welcome to the Dark Side

At those focal lengths, the field rotation from the alt-az mount will be evident, so you were right to go for an EQ mount.

IMO, adding the CGE dovetail bar to your C9.25 is the best option going forward. I prefer the Losmandy made bars as they seem a bit more rigid, but they're also a good few more $$$.

The All Star alignment will help you hone your polar alignment (a bit). Once you've performed your normal star alignment, pick a bright star near the meridian and celestial equator. Follow the instructions on the handset. I say "a bit" I found it was good enough for visual, but I never got it quite close enough for imaging.

Since you'll be using a computer anyway, I'd recommend one of the software assisted methods for your polar alignment - the one I find the easiest is DARV in APT once you've connected up your DSLR. What DARV will want you to do is point at a star low on the east or west horizon and allow it to drive back and forth for a period of time. This will highlight any polar alignment error with a V-shape, and you iteratively adjust altitude until the star tracks back over itself. Then rinse and repeat with azimuth (pointing somewhere between zenith and the celestial equator). Once you've done it a few times, it's pretty easy to get good alignment.

f/6.3 is probably the ballpark you want to play in if you want details from smaller galaxies, but the consequence is that it will take longer exposures to get the signal over the noise terms of the sensor (that's a whole other conversation!!).

You might want to test your scopes + reducer with the camera(s) you intend to use to try to determine your usable imaging circle. With my C6 + reducer, I get wonky stars out towards the corners using a ZWO ASI1600 camera. No biggie, modern cameras have a lot of pixels and there's always a crop function in processing

How long you can image unguided with your scope/mount combo will depend on how good your polar alignment is and how well the mount tracks. Balancing your optical train may influence this also. Each mount has its own individual "characteristics" that we have to learn and adapt to.

The 224 would make an excellent guide camera (I used one for years before getting a 290 mono). As for your guiding mechanism... you'd want a bigger guide scope for the C9.25, and you'd have to fix it very rigidly to be viable to avoid flexure, which is why many end up with an off-axis guider. These are the better way to go at longer focal lengths, but are a bit of a learning curve to get going...but then imaging is full of those

Filters - consumer DSLR/mirrorless cameras already include filters akin to a UV/IR cut, but you may want to consider extra drop-ins if you have a lot of light pollution where you will image. Astronomik do a range of these for Canon (and other) cameras.

To get all this rocking and rolling, you'll want the ASCOM platform installed and the Celestron mount driver, and the relevant cables. The mount may have included a cable to connect up to the hand controller, and that will be sufficient. Some mounts allow you to connect directly to the mount bypassing the hand controller (Sky-Watcher and others), but I'm not certain about the CGEM. My AVX requires connecting the computer using the serial cable to the bottom port on the HC.

Oh, and good luck
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 31-12-2020, 12:31 PM
Tulloch's Avatar
Tulloch (Andrew)
Registered User

Tulloch is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 488
Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. Sounds like the OAG is the way to go for guiding.

I'd prefer to use the C9.25" if possible (more light catching power) and have seen interesting results from stacking f/6.3 reducers (albeit in the EAA category).
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5...th-a-lodestar/

The focal reducer certainly causes some uneven lighting on the DSLR sensor, but a bit of cropping helps here
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/6...ng/?p=10046413

With the DARV method, how low on the horizon does the star need to be? In my small backyard, I can only really go down to around 15 degrees elevation to the east or west, is this too high?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31-12-2020, 01:02 PM
Camelopardalis's Avatar
Camelopardalis (Dunk)
Drifting from the pole

Camelopardalis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulloch View Post
With the DARV method, how low on the horizon does the star need to be? In my small backyard, I can only really go down to around 15 degrees elevation to the east or west, is this too high?
Nah, I wouldn't say so...in my postage stamp back yard I can only get down to about 22 degrees, and it seems to work well enough.

The general plus side to good polar alignment is that GOTOs tend to be pretty good from the start...forgiving any clock misalignments of course.

Having both east and west "horizons" means you can flip over and check on the other side to see if it holds true. It's not impossible that mount mechanics (being mainstream mounts of course) results in a mismatch. It's a question of ascertaining which one is right.

What you're ultimately looking for is that the star tracks back over itself during the period of time that you need to expose the main imaging camera for. It doesn't (much) matter if the line is a little wavy...that will be periodic error which should be smoothed out either by guiding (or PEC). But one thing at a time
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 09:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement