Amateur Astronomy Evolution 2017 and Beyond?

[glend (Glen)]

As we enter a new year, it would be a good time to take stock of the amateur astronomy landscape over the past year and cast your gaze into this coming year. What changes do you see coming? What new products, techniques, discoveries, will transform amateur astronomy? What trends are you seeing among IIS members and the wider astro community around the world? Is there a singular event of the past year that will influence future directions?

[el_draco (Rom)]

The future of amateur astronomy has few limits although I think light pollution and the trend towards global idiocracy are significant threats. Those living in cities are losing contact with the night sky and all that it both brings and reminds us of.

On a positive note, those of us with the will to pursue the infinite have few limits and I see an ever greater level of collaboration between amateurs and professionals, with more amateurs making more discoveries in their own right.

I've been an amateur for over 40 years and I remember, very distinctly, a book by Jack Newton, (Canada), that was considered leading edge back then. Galaxies like M33 were faint smudges in B&W in that book. These days, I often mistake amateur images for Hubble images. I can't even imagine what another 20 years will do... amateur space based observatories perhaps?

[PeterM]

Excellent thought provoking thread Glend.

From an amateur Supernova discoverers point of view much has changed recently and will (as it should) continue to from hereon in.

BOSS discoveries stand at 156 and we would love to see that at 200 but that is becoming more and more a difficult a target.

There are many professional supernova search surveys now as well as orbiting satellites (many listed below) that will make our goal all the more difficult. Throw ontop of that the LSST and every other SBBS (Super Big Bleedin Scopes) that are in the works and you would think time for the amateur to give up!
Well not yet anyway.

The evolution of Supernova discovery is exciting.

From the naked eye discoveries by the chinese in 185, by Arab/Japanese/Chinese in 1054, Kepler 1604 then onto Bob Evans telescopic discoveries in the 80/90s, then amateur CCD Supernova discoveries by Monard, Puckett, Armstrong, Boles, BOSS and others we now arrive at mass discoveries by dedicated professional robotic surveys.

The good news is that surveys are generating vast amounts of data and and some of these surveys like ASAS SN (http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...in/index.shtml) the All Sky Automated Survey for Supernova still rely on amateurs assisting with confirmations. Greg Bock and I have been involved with Asassn now for about 18 months, when we can and weather permitting we schedule follow up of targets, mostly the Southern ones and send our images back for further analysis to see if they confirm their discovery. Asassn have many many professional astronomers on board whose work involves supernova. When our images confirm the new object, we are very generously included in or even lead author in the ATel (Astronomers Telegram - http://www.astronomerstelegram.org/) that is subsequently released.
They have gone much further including us in several professional papers submitted to and published by Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.

So yes Glen, Amateur Astronomy is and will change in 2017, yes amateurs will still have an important role to play and yes amateur astronomers can have an even greater collaboration with professional astronomers.

Changes/Challenges for 2017 and beyond? The spread of LED street lighting - popping up in every new estate and soon coming to a pole near you.

And the Trump card..... it's effect on Astro/Science funding in the US and beyond.


ASAS-SN: Transients, Supernovae
Catalina Real-Time Transient Survey:
CRTS discoveries page, (Supernovae only, Possible supernovae)
MLS search page (Supernovae only, Possible supernovae)
Supernova hunt page
Dark Energy Survey Bright Transients
Gaia Photometric Science Alerts programme Alert index
La Silla-QUEST (no published list)
MASTER robotic Net List of optical transients, Supernovae
OGLE-IV wide field survey Discovery images Rapid Transient Detection system
Intermediate Palomar Transient Factory (no published list)
PS1 Science Consortium Discoveries
ROTSE collaboration: Discoveries page

[Slawomir (Suavi)]

Four things that I have noticed are: refractors are getting faster, mass produced mounts are getting better, astro-capable cameras are getting cheaper and software allows to extract more out of the data. All of the above result in a gradual improvement in the quality of amateur astro images.

[ChrisV (Chris)]

Maybe not mainstream, but in the past year live imaging has become easier with the introduction of low cost sensitive CMOS cameras with low read noise PLUS good live stacking software.

[JA]

Hi Glen,

Good Q: Changes here/coming soon? ..... the explosion in popularity of video or EAA for observation/imaging which will drive further hardware and software development together with better systems integration, which will further improve take-up and reduce costs.

Best
JA

PS: In line with this and for 2017 we could/should introduce a Video Astronomy / EAA forum /subforum

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

I'd like to think that amateurs will give more thought and resources to the scientific aspects of our hobby.
Spectroscopy is certainly one area where the professionals are crying out for more quality amateur data.
T

[PeterM]

This is a great thread, and one of the best in recent times. Responses sofar are excellent. If it doesn't get 100 responses in record time then what is happening in amateur astronomy.

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

Good thread.
I was pondering this and maybe, just maybe...

Full integration of Weather Sensor type gizmos (Boltwood etc) married with state of the art local fine grain weather satellite info and radar for domestic use.
Maybe a network of home grown techno radar/ home made satellites (Bojan?? anyone???), forming a network specifically for the cloud watchers amongst us.
Imagine running a fully integrated Obsy- phone in on the way home (hands free of course in your hover car!) yep- looks good for a few hrs,
fire up the SGPRO plus everything else- Satellite Pro, Radar stacker, Cumulobuster, set the button to green.
Off for some food in a tube.
Text from the obsy- some clouds have reached 20% opacity have switched to calibration frames for predicted T- 10 mins.
Then back to work with the laser guided/ AO enhanced hexagonal mirror with servos duty free from china Mega Scope!!
El Draco- ? where are you?
all the best to all and sundry in 2017.
Graz

[Southskyscience (Team)]

Thank you Glen and others,

‘For Science’ would be the crux of the rest of this message. The future is in our hands, as always, if only we could work together positively and peacefully.

Some current attempts and suggestions/invitations:

1. Contributing to science. We watch the BOSS team as exemplar (not just in what’s achieved or for names but in how people can team up ‘for science’).
   
   We need more of an ‘astronomical science’ focus (and training/systems –so we need to divide-and-conquer), right from basic reporting of events to responding to pro-am requests.
   .
   
2. Spectroscopy, specifically, although massively important both in the past and right now!, seems to have been so neglected for all sorts of reasons. We have a gaping hole in basic understanding, play/explore/investigating, and pro-am contributions. It is hoped that more of us look into this. It is nowadays economical and simple to do; then decide to what depth you wish to take it.
   
   Astrophotographers are needed please, who already have fantastic gear, to start taking spectral images. Many among us can team up on the processing side. But also please show startlingly beautiful colourful spectral images to the world –your skills and gear will show things up more than the basics.
   .
3. Societies and Clubs are in a perfect position to make it happen. Please (return to) have an observational/field science component ie doing –not only talks, with no less facilitation than for socialising. Serving just ‘what the customers want’ has an analogy in ‘kids want sugar’ or ‘--- want ICE’, with consequences.
   
   Societies and Clubs, as an example for 2), can also readily include a grating filter (only about $200) in the eyepiece kit for members and the public. And let us join efforts across Societies, embracing all non-members too.
   .
4. SOUTH celestial focus. Traditional and current texts cover so much of northern hemisphere perspectives that many of us have not embraced or promoted seeing with SH eyes. Example, how many texts have and how many Outreach show: Esb 365, (arguably) the reddest star which is right by beta Crucis, or H3945 the blue-orange pair quite as beautiful as Albireo, or gamma Velorum the spectral gem?
   
   We can be, collectively the custodian-watcher of eta Carinae; like (….I have a dream….) every astrophotographer takes one set (of it or another chosen adopt-an-object) every session when available.

Hopefully, many of us field astronomers and field observers (either term is an alternative to amateur that can misrepresent or is unhelpful in collaborating with the ‘professional’) will team up one way or another. One endeavour (‘what happened in 2016’) that invites participation is via Southskyscience; much work has progressed -info in separate posts and future communications.

Thanks again for this discussion.
Team

[Atmos (Colin)]

I think we'll start moving towards seeing a new generation of CMOS sensors, maybe not new generation but there is a large portion of the amateur astronomy community calling for larger mono sensors. At the moment you can either get large sensors that have 15 micron pixels and NABG or the KAF-16803, 11002 (ancient) or the 16200 (new).
Seeing the sensor in the Nikon D810a as mono (QHY have it as a OSC already) or the Sony A7R2 as mono would be a large step forwards. The KAF-16803 is still the king sensor on longer focal lengths due to the 9 micron pixels but a mono Sony A7R2 (42mp FX sensor) would be amazing on a FSQ106 or what I've got as they're both really well corrected and short FL.

This I believe would be the biggest step we could make for 2017.

[skysurfer]

And not only electronics, but also visual astronomy is improving.
Large dobs are getting cheaper and modern eyepieces are waaaaayyyyy better than the Huygens / Ramsden eyepieces of the 1970s.
Take the Ethos hand grenades with 100 deg FOV or the Naglers.

[xelasnave]

I saw a show on tv re a new rifle scope.
It used a laser to correct for air disturbance.
I could not help thinking such a scope could be used to bring adaptive optics to us.
Not to vary the primary but to shut the chip on and off.
The idea of the scope was you marked the target on your screen and then centered the cross hairs and pulled the trigger but the thing did not fire until the computer agreed the target was in line.
Does anyone know what I am talking about?
Alex

[rmuhlack (Richard)]

• Amateur deep field project ? (as per this thread)
• Exoplanet transit detection ?
• From an equipment perspective, low read noise, high QE sensors with small pixels allow one to obtain high resolution deep sky images without the need for long focal length or a huge mount (just look at some of Ray's images).

I am very interested in getting involved in amateur astronomy science and I have equipment that I think could be put to the task, i just dont know where to start...? What are the researchable questions and projects/targets that I can contribute to with the most impact? how do the pro-am collaborations that have been mentioned already in this thread get started? Sure I can stick a star analyser grating or photometric filter on one of my cameras and start playing to learn the basics myself. But what then?

[JA]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I saw a show on tv re a new rifle scope.
It used a laser to correct for air disturbance.
I could not help thinking such a scope could be used to bring adaptive optics to us.
Not to vary the primary but to shut the chip on and off.
The idea of the scope was you marked the target on your screen and then centered the cross hairs and pulled the trigger but the thing did not fire until the computer agreed the target was in line.
Does anyone know what I am talking about?
Alex

Hi Alex,

Yes, I know the one. It's called tracking point. Some video >>>

Click here to load the video

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Click here to load the video

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In a roundabout way, we have that now, vide Speckle or Lucky Imaging, only using the images that are good enough or above a certain seeing threshold set in software (or by lowly humans) to stack for a better image, but I suppose the development would be to put it into one device/camera and one button press.

Best
JA

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Richard, etc all,
I've been actively involved in spectroscopy for the last ten years. Prior to that almost forty years in amateur astronomy.
Spectroscopy is easy to start, as you say, with a grating and whatever camera telescope you have available. I call this spectroscopy 101.
It gives the introduction to spectra and how to process and calibrate the 1D profile. You can obviously record low resolution spectrum of many varied stellar objects and gain a basic understanding of the HR diagram and stellar evolution.
There are very few "serious" spectroscopic areas to contribute to other than confirmation of novae and SN with the grating.
There are many forums world wide to assist the novice, and a couple of my own books which may be of help

In my experience using the grating is as far as most amateurs go.....the drop out rate in the first twelve months is >80%
Why is this so?
I think part of the reason is not seeing any "advantage" or recognition by the rest of the amateur community. How often have you seen "The image of the week/ month" being a detailed Spectral image? Never.

The other reason is the quantum leap required to move into serious high resolution spectroscopy - the areas of research and data required by the professionals. The necessary slit spectroscope will set you back in excess of $4000, this also requires a good QE mono camera and a suitable guide camera as well as a large (As large as possible) telescope capable of working at >f7 and mount capable of holding a target star on a 20micron slit gap for tens of minutes to stack into a two hour exposure. Such are the challenges of ProAm spectroscopy.
Not really that much different to the dedicated AP amateur, but without the group "glory"

It takes dedication, rigor and patience...... but believe me the rewards strongly outweigh the problems. You are at the forefront of amateur science "boldly going where few have gone before". The professionals we work with are great and always willing to share their knowledge to help us understand what is actually being recorded and what it means in terms of the dynamics of the star(s) being observed.
If any member wants more information on spectroscopic equipment, available processing software or any other aspect of spectroscopy just drop me a PM or email.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by JA

Hi Alex,

Yes, I know the one. It's called tracking point. Some video >>>

In a roundabout way, we have that now, vide Speckle or Lucky Imaging, only using the images that are good enough or above a certain seeing threshold set in software (or by lowly humans) to stack for a better image, but I suppose the development would be to put it into one device/camera and one button press.

Best
JA

Thanks.
I think it won't be long before what I imagine will be available.
Alex

[PeterM]

Pro-am collaboration is something I never imagined I would be involved in and I would never have had a clue where or how to start anyways. When I discovered my first supernova in 2008 and saw the IAU circular released, it had the names of 2 professional astronomers who obtained the spectra confirming it was indeed a supernova. I decided to google both and then email them thanking them for doing this - which they do as part of their roles. Not expecting much in the way of a response I was utterly flabbergasted to receive two very friendly and detailed replies in which they thanked me and the amateur astronomy community. They infact encouraged me to bypass the IAU cbat process by contacting them first with new discoveries as cbat (Central Bureau Astronomical Telegrams) was way to slow and they wanted to get onto discoveries asap as part of their work. I had found a backdoor to the slow and laborious official reporting in place at the time and this has served BOSS and the professionals we contact extremely well. The Pros do their work and then advised cbat with very detailed reports usually several days in advance of where they may have been. A win win.
So along with the excellent advice here don't be afraid to google professionals whose work may benefit from your efforts, you may well be surprised.

[cometcatcher (Kevin)]

Dark skies may be giving way to lights but I see a greater uptake of narrow band imaging to go deeper and shoot through the LP.

Now if someone could just invent a way to shoot through clouds for optical astronomy...

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by cometcatcher

Dark skies may be giving way to lights but I see a greater uptake of narrow band imaging to go deeper and shoot through the LP.

Now if someone could just invent a way to shoot through clouds for optical astronomy...

I wonder if some smart cookie will come up with a way to measure the full spectrum of local LP and digitally edit it out from your images.

Image stabilisation seems to be promising too. The days of looking at tiny streaks through binoculars are on the way out.