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  #21  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RobF View Post
I was about to apply extra salt to these raw Astronomy weather wounds by mentioning the SUNshine state, but heck, it hasn't exactly been International Year of Ast skies up here this year either alas.
(Besides, we don't have enough roads, electricity or water for ourselves let alone any new arrivals )
It certainly hasn't! It seems like every year is getting cloudier and cloudier or infected by the DSE. I thought 2008 was bad.....then 2009 rolled around....
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:38 PM
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A good night !!

Hi PGC & All,

Loved reading your report as usual -- you did very well with Abell S 805. Here are my impressions of it back in July 2000 with 31cm from Bargo with a mag 6.2 sky and good seeing:

x186 36' TF. IC 4765, IC 4769 and PGC 62391 are in the same field, ESO 104-7 is also there.

IC 4765 Mag 12.3p Size 3.4' x 1.8'. Obvious but not large, perhaps 1.5-1.75' diameter. Typical eliptical profile rising moderately and broadly to the centre azonally without any obvious nucleus. Possible slight elongation in PA 135. In PA 135 4' is a tiny glow -PGC 62391. IC 4769 is is 11' N and ESO 104-7 is 2' S.

PGC 62391 Mag ?? Size ?? 4' W of IC 4765, perhaps 30" diameter rising moderately and evenly to the centre. ery faint * embedded in the halo or just to the N off halo.

IC 4769 Mag 14.1p Size 1.9' x 1.1'.Found 11' N of IC 4765, very LSB, 50" x 15", lengthened form of gossamer rising slightly to the axis and centre.

ESO 104-7 (PGC 62408) Mag 12.9v Size 1.6' x 0.8'. Moderately faint only 2' S of IC 4765. not particularly difficult, 50" x 30" in PA 90. Brightens moderately to the centre without discernable core or nucleus.


Somehow I seemed to have missed C 4767 -- well done to you!

And here is the group around NGC 7012 with 46cm in 2005 from Bargo in similar conditions:

NGC 7012, ESO 286-52 (PGC 66116) and ESO 286- 48 (PGC 66109) are in a group.

x185 27' TF

NGC 7012 ESO 286-51 PGC 66116 Galaxy
*RA: 21h 06m 45.6sDec: -44 48' 52"
Mag: 13.6 (P) S.B.: ---B-V: --- Size: 2.5'x1.3'
Class: E+4 pec P.A.: 100 Inclination

ESO 286-52 PGC 66118 Multi-Galaxy Sys
*RA: 21h 06m 51.3s Dec: -44 49' 34"
Mag: 13.8 (P) S.B.: --- B-V: --- Size: 1.3'x0.8'Class: P.A.: 94
Inclination: ---R.V.: +8680

ESO 286-48 PGC 66109 Galaxy
*RA: 21h 06m 28.8s Dec: -44 47' 21"
Mag: 15.5S.B.: --- B-V: --- Size: 1.1'x0.3' Class: L P.A.: 37

These three Eg's are in a small tight triplet. The brightest is NGC 7012 is fairly easy to see, no worse than mod faint. Adjacent to a mag 12* in a thinly populated field. The other two are not too hard either, though -52 is the brighter and is immediately adjacent to -12 -- less than 2' SE. -48 is to the NW by about 3'.

-12 is mod bright , pretty easy to see and has a fairly typical looking eliptical brightness profile with indefinite edges, 1.25' diameter rising moderately and evenly to the centre to a faint *ar core.

-52 is only 1.5' SE, smaller and slightly fainter than the NGC object, it too rises slightly in brightenss to a faint stellaring in the centre.

-48 is the faintest of the three, 4' away as a very small slightly elonated smudge, 20" x 5" in PA 45, which seems to rise in brightness to the axis and the centre. Fairly faint.


I know you do it tough in Melbourne with the weather and what-not, but after having just arrived back from China yesterday, it really makes me appreciate what we've got. During my 2 weeks the sky there was never clear at all. It is always hazy -- even on a clear day away from urban areas it is at best a murky muted blue. In the cities you are hard pressed to see mag 2.5 stars even on the good nights. On bad nights (notionally cloud free nights -- just strong haze) in Shanghai and Beijing, mag 1 is the limit.

The light pollution has to be seen to be believed -- the sky is brown orange in all directions. The sky from the centre of the Sydney CBD at Sydney Observatory is vastly better than the sky in any city (of five) we went to in China. Singapore is almost as bad though there is less sky-haze

In China it must be almost impossible to be an amateur astronomer. Those who can afford a telescope live in the city and can't see the sky and are faced with a drive of several hours to see mag 4 stars.

Those who live in the country where the sky is better (though still relatively poor) can't afford a 'scope.

Maybe it is better in the other seasons -- dunno. I guess I only saw summer.

I really struggled to find Polaris for my first time (finally confirmed it on night 2 Beijing). Suspected I saw it one night in Shanghai, not visible elsewhere.

That's how bad it is. Sad but true.


Best,

Les D
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  #23  
Old 02-08-2009, 07:07 PM
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G'day Les,

Thanks for posting your own observations of these objects, I always enjoy reading them and provides a good reference aswell

One question about the NGC 7012 group: Just west of the galaxy lies 2 tiny galaxies, one of which I sighted, but neither are on any chart, including the PGC/LEDA 2009 catalogue for Cartes Du Ciel. On my image on the previous page, I have arrowed the galaxy in question, with the caption "catalogue number???" Clearly it's a galaxy and obvious on DSS images, but is missing from every catalogue, chart and source I've looked up. Perhaps you could shed some light on this?

Shame about the situation in China, but in a developing country with well over a billion people it's to be expected. I suspect winter would be better, as there would be less of that humidity trapping the pollution and whatnot. We've got it good here! (Melbourne weather notwithstanding ofcourse.)

Last edited by pgc hunter; 02-08-2009 at 07:17 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2009, 12:10 AM
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Simbad

Hi PGC,

Well the best I can do is refer you to SIMBAD which at this page here lists all the objects with a catalogue designation within 120 arc-seconds of NGC 7012:

http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/si...bmit=submit+id

But I don't think the one you've arrowed is found in any catalogue so there is no info on it I can see.

The cluster, AGCS 921 from a perusal of SIMBAD does not appear to have been studied in any great detail (or indeed any detail) which probably explains why the individual members or supposed members have not been "tagged" in any definitive way.

Can't really help beyond that ...


Best,

Les D
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2009, 12:18 AM
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Thumbs up I'm definitely NOT moving to Melbourne!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgc hunter View Post
Yes, it was actually happening, the first clear night in 150,000 years.
Gosh! That long. Must have had some troubles just recognising the constellations!

Thanks so much for the interesting report!!
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2009, 01:38 AM
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I enjoyed reading your observing report.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgc hunter View Post
Shame about the situation in China, but in a developing country with well over a billion people it's to be expected. I suspect winter would be better, as there would be less of that humidity trapping the pollution and whatnot. We've got it good here! (Melbourne weather notwithstanding ofcourse.)
I can only speak for Beijing, but winter is worse. Most people heat/cook with charcoal, and an inversion layer traps the smoke at ground level. Clear days/nights are few and far between, and the smoke ruins what is left. I have been there on several occasions for a period of time totalling around 4 or 5 months, and only can remember seeing stars once.

On the plus side, businesses there turn of their lights at night, including on their advertising. I suspect that it is government mandated.

Regards,
Eric
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngcles View Post
Hi PGC,

Well the best I can do is refer you to SIMBAD which at this page here lists all the objects with a catalogue designation within 120 arc-seconds of NGC 7012:

http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/si...bmit=submit+id

But I don't think the one you've arrowed is found in any catalogue so there is no info on it I can see.

Best,

Les D
Thanks Les. Maybe we should call it "Sab 1"
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  #28  
Old 05-08-2009, 09:11 PM
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I have had another look at 7012 with the excellent new CDC v3 (I love mysteries)!!. Chart attached. Also Word file with a list of objects derived from the chart. Interesting to note that 2 galaxies with different positions and sizes are both called NGC7012. The chart shows that there is quite a mini galaxy cluster at this spot. Cheers, Paul.
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lismore Bloke View Post
I have had another look at 7012 with the excellent new CDC v3 (I love mysteries)!!. Chart attached. Also Word file with a list of objects derived from the chart. Interesting to note that 2 galaxies with different positions and sizes are both called NGC7012. The chart shows that there is quite a mini galaxy cluster at this spot. Cheers, Paul.
Sounds like you have 2 catalogues activated which both include 7012 in their database resulting in duplication.

That small galaxy isn't featured, seems like it's not in any catalogue like Les says.

Which galaxy catalogue are you using?
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  #30  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:51 AM
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I'll have a look when I get home. I may have 2 catalogues selected, probably NGC and PGC.

I'm still intrigued by the way CDC has drawn this area. There seems to be a couple of galaxies superimposed, or in line-of-sight. It may just be a charting error or the 7012 designation may have been applied to 2 systems.
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