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  #21  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:18 AM
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jenchris (Jennifer)
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I have no PV panels. My last two bills have been 160 and 200 dollars for 2 people.
I'm on bottled gas for the stove but the oven and water heater are electric.
A friend who looked after our home last year for 6 months used nearly twice what we did on her own.
Not sure how profligate you have to be to use 1000 dollars worth of power in a quarter.
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:56 AM
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Visionary (David)
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Mmmm..... all the hype surrounding Li-Ion batteries, let me frame this differently via a question "Who is satisfied with the battery life of their Laptop"? I am not happy with either the life of my laptop batteries nor their service life. Who believes their laptop battery will last 10 years sic Tesla Powerwall!
It's about it we all look beyond the hype (advertising Bs') and adopt a pragmatic approach to power. The storage of elections is not aided by Musk-type press conferences, electrons don't care how successful a product launch is, nor how good the press is following a product launch.
The efficient storage of elections is the stuff of engineering & science, not marketing.
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:05 AM
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I'm sure any detractors will try to cite battery manufacturing technology or quality as being higher, however; you ask an excellent question^ David. Battery manufacturers ( Lead-acid, Li-ion etc..) are not likely to give their all in terms of divulging specific battery cycle life data for their products so other than 3rd party independent tests it's hard to be specific.

Best
JA
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:43 AM
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jenchris (Jennifer)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visionary View Post
Mmmm..... all the hype surrounding Li-Ion batteries, let me frame this differently via a question "Who is satisfied with the battery life of their Laptop"? I am not happy with either the life of my laptop batteries nor their service life. Who believes their laptop battery will last 10 years sic Tesla Powerwall!
It's about it we all look beyond the hype (advertising Bs') and adopt a pragmatic approach to power. The storage of elections is not aided by Musk-type press conferences, electrons don't care how successful a product launch is, nor how good the press is following a product launch.
The efficient storage of elections is the stuff of engineering & science, not marketing.
Kinda wish we COULD store elections - leave em all til 2025 and then do them all at once.
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:31 PM
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Peter Ward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenchris View Post
I have no PV panels. My last two bills have been 160 and 200 dollars for 2 people............
Not sure how profligate you have to be to use 1000 dollars worth of power in a quarter.
We try not to waste enery. LED fixtures throughout , run appliances outside of peak billing hours, but a pool (low energy pump) and ducted air certainly do not help.

NSW energy providers also have you over a barrel by charging about $90 a quarter just for being connected to the grid.
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:06 PM
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Solar panels are not too expensive.
Recently I spent approx $1200. 00 4 panels
I am surprised the charge when overcast.
Alex
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  #27  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jenchris View Post
Kinda wish we COULD store elections - leave em all til 2025 and then do them all at once.

More than once I have mentioned I am visually impaired, I don't appreciate the ridicule. In any case, my intention was clear.
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  #28  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visionary View Post
Mmmm..... all the hype surrounding Li-Ion batteries, let me frame this differently via a question "Who is satisfied with the battery life of their Laptop"? I am not happy with either the life of my laptop batteries nor their service life. Who believes their laptop battery will last 10 years sic Tesla Powerwall!
It's about it we all look beyond the hype (advertising Bs') and adopt a pragmatic approach to power. The storage of elections is not aided by Musk-type press conferences, electrons don't care how successful a product launch is, nor how good the press is following a product launch.
The efficient storage of elections is the stuff of engineering & science, not marketing.
1. You not being happy with how long your laptop battery lasts is a pointless argument. It simply means that the manufacturer decided to go for smaller battery to make the laptop smaller and more user-friendly. By the way, here is a laptop with 22h of video playback battery life.

2. The service life is a different story but somehow unrelated to the Li-ion batteries used for power storage. Different application, different charge/discharge cycles, different power etc will have different effect on the battery life. Apples and oranges.

3. Criticizing Li-ion batteries for having a good marketing is not a point.

4. Criticizing Li-ion batteries without comparing them to the alternatives is not a point, especially after previously saying how much better the alternative is.

5. Tesla is not the only manufacturer selling Li-ion storage solutions and Tesla is not the only manufacturer having 10 years warranty.
Just to name another one, Mercedes-Benz Energy Storage Home has warranty that the batteries will keep 80% of original charge capacity after 8000 charging cycles. That is over 20 years of daily charge/discharge cycles, typical for a household. And Mercedes-Benz is a brand name that has lots to lose by selling dodgy batteries that do not perform (unsure what those batteries cost, probably more than Tesla. But the point is that the Li-ion batteries can last much longer than you say).

5. Talking about "electrons, engineering and science" while only criticizing Li-ion batteries is very, very misleading. The lead-acid batteries have to obey exactly the same laws of physics as the Li-ion batteries. So do I and so do you. Musk, advertising, whatever. It makes no difference, physics is physics, science is science.

6. Instead of saying that Li-ion batteries are bad how about actually comparing them with your preferred solution, the lead-acid battery. How would Li-ion powered laptop compare to a lead-acid powered laptop? And let's ignore the size/battery density for the comparison purposes.

The facts are:
Both types of batteries will degrade over time.
The modern Li-ion battery will outlast the modern lead-acid battery for power storage.
Li-ion batteries have more suitable charging/discharging characteristics for power storage.
Li-ion batteries cost more.
Both types of batteries have been around for a long time and there was lots of independent testing. Science is there and not being hidden my Musk and the others.
Both battery types present a good power storage solution.

However, if the whole life of the battery is taken into account the Li-ion works out cheaper (at the current state of technology). On the other hand lead-acid is a cheaper entry solution. Take a pick.

Apologies to OP for going off-topic.
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:02 PM
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jenchris (Jennifer)
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I'm not aware of your impairment.
I'm not ridiculing you either.
It just seemed apt. More like a freudian slip.
I know what you meant. I wasn't taking the piss.
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenchris View Post
I'm not aware of your impairment.
I'm not ridiculing you either.
It just seemed apt. More like a freudian slip.
I know what you meant. I wasn't taking the piss.
It irritates the crap outta me that I make such mistakes, at one time I didn't, a personal issue I guess. Cheers
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  #31  
Old 09-12-2017, 11:42 AM
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jenchris (Jennifer)
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I too am getting impatient but with poor English unfortunately.
There's just so many times I can read there telescopes or some other unsolicited variation that is beyond reckoning.
Poor eyesight does make life difficult though and you have my commiserations and even sympathy - to be an astronomer with a sight impairment must be akin to being a racing driver with one eye.
I blame the newspapers and in particular The Guardian for the pathetic level of English language portrayed in the daily rags.
Sadly, every day I see worse and worse interpretations of grammar and dialect.
There are something like 2 billion people who supposedly speak English and I'd warrant that only 5% can actually write competently.
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