Why no Light Pollution Forum?

[Marty0750]

It is the elephant in the room and is rarely mentioned in this forum. Its growing reach threatens our hobby, erodes effectiveness of LP filters, frustrates urban observers and drives us ever longer distances to observe. Maybe because we feel helpless to do anything and pretend it just one of those things you stoically deal with. So, there is no discussion here about how we get around it, how to do anything about it, what can we do about it as a community, how might we influence the governing officials, the lighting industry, the public?

One thing is certain with the introduction of LED lighting it will get worse and more rapidly than ever! In just two years since LEDs became part of my urban lighting "improvement" program in Adelaide my skies have brightened from Bortle 5 to 6! We all know the frustration a new light that a neighbour, business or Council has installed that makes your observing life a misery and the often demoralizing experience of getting anything done. But then there are success stories too.

Can we start a Forum category "Light Pollution"? Stories of how it affects us, what we did to ameliorate it, whether it be making changes to your situation eg dealing with a bad light, negotiating with neighbors, businesses or local governments. Where to get information (eg IDA).

It may be a bit political for this forum, but do nothing you may as well say goodbye to dark skies and be forced to more inconvenience than ever or just give up observing altogether. You can be a passive observer letting it overwhelm you or take possession of your hobby and become pro-active to help protect it. You can do it at what ever level you feel comfortable with. Some IDA brochures passed on to friends and casual visitors who view through your scope or to involvement at a more official level in your club. Does it have a light pollution section?

A majority of the public in Australia want action on environmental issues. (eg protect Barrier Reef!) Light pollution has an impact on the environment beyond astronomy and is part of the whole problem of environmental degradation. This can be used to promote dark skies to the benefit of all, not just astronomy.

Can the moderators of this forum create a Light Pollution forum please?

Martin

[JA]

Hi Martin,

Light pollution may not have a pigeon-hole but, it doesn't mean that it isn't discussed here in detail. A search on the word "pollution" shows 20 pages = 500 threads and that would be a minimum since the forum search seems to max out at 500 results.

Welcome to the forum,

Best
JA

[LewisM]

We discuss LP a LOT.

[silv (Annette)]

I second that motion.
Both aspects, the technical solutions to existing LP and also the campaigning part merit a separate forum.

My city council just now decided to go LED, as well, to lower CO2 emissions via energy saving. So there's still time to change the future here before they actually spend money on hardware... If I only knew more to convince them from a strictly rational, scientific viewpoint.

And... I just yesterday spent some serious money to venture into visual astronomy. I know I'll need filters and I can foresee that the scope I got isn't the best choice considering where I'm located. And probably, the objects I want to see aren't the best either from a LP area..
A separate forum discussing and maybe even answering the questions would be a huge gain, going forward.

[Marty0750]

Originally Posted by JA

Hi Martin,

Light pollution may not have a pigeon-hole but, it doesn't mean that it isn't discussed here in detail. A search on the word "pollution" shows 20 pages = 500 threads and that would be a minimum since the forum search seems to max out at 500 results.

Welcome to the forum,

Best
JA

Hi JA


That is my point. Given the importance of the issue I believe it ought to have its own department. Rather than widely scattered posts across forums comments can be collected in one place and put the LP issue "on the map". That way people can keep better track of topics and resources and especially encourage more awareness and participation in LP issues.


Martin

[silv (Annette)]

yup

[skysurfer]

Indeed, that is a good idea. Cloudynights has a Light Pollution sub forum and so do other forums.
Despite Australia is a large country (almost the size of the USA or EU) but just a small fraction of the population of either, despite this is really bothersome for amateur astronomers, because most live close to the large heavily light polluted urban centers like Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide or Brisbane.

About the LED lighting: TO is stating it is getting worse with LED lighting.
I only partially agree with this.

Yes: many councils think "for the same amount of energy we can install more lighting" which is an abuse of LED and saves barely energy at all. And (particularly the first generation) have the harsh white 4000-5000K color temperature which contains more blue light and scatters more than the same amount of 3000K light, resulting in more skyglow.

No: LED luminaries are usually better shielded to prevent upward lighting and most modern ones shine only downward, unlike Sodium, fluorescent or Metal Halide ones, of which the bulb protrudes under the horizontal level, which allows light leaking upward.

However I now see more modern LED steetlamps with 3000K well shielded luminaries as I have seen the lamps which are replaced, this is an improvement.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

LOL, waste of time. Sorry guys, but LP isn't going to get any better, or go away, unless we wipe each other out en masse and 99% of the human population disappears.

I can't practically see any stars to the South cos of 2 bloody big street lights...not shielded...for a 20m cul de sac...go figure. My complaint to my local council was rejected on the basis of "safety" for drivers and foot pedestrians...meanwhile, just around the corner, there's a stretch of the street for near 200m without lighting that is dangerous at night. Or, if you take the highway from Ipswich to Springfield...huge chunks of it without ANY lighting, despite minimal fencing and large amounts of wildlife presenting huge danger to cars travelling at speed...

I'm not going to hold my breath cos I'd like to live a bit longer.

I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic. 99% of the population think we're a bunch of weirdo perverts and couldn't give 2 hoots about our hobby, or nature. With the drop in science interest worsening from generation to generation, don't expect it to get any better.

edit: there's lucky to be 4-5 cars a day entering said cul de sac, all residents. Foot pedestrians even less. It's a yoke I tell you, a yoke!