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Old 03-09-2014, 06:49 AM
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Saturn%5 (Graeme)
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Vixen lvw Anyone

Hi Guys
Just wondering if anyone uses the Vixen lvw eyepieces ? I am looking to get some for a 6" newt it is f5, Or can anyone suggest anything else ?

Graeme.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:46 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Excellent eyepieces the LVW series. I've used my 22mm in an f/4 Newtonian, with no coma corrector, image is excellent, only a small amount of coma visible on the very edge, & no astigmatism at all. My 8mm is one of the easiest to use eyepieces I have ever encountered, with next to no eye strain after using it for 4 hours straight.

The LVW series is one of the very few entire series model that perform extremely well in all scope designs, Newt', Mak, SCT, refractor, & slow and fast focal ratios.

They maintain a high resale value too.

There are also the "Orion Lanthanum Superwide" eyepieces - exact same eyepiece but with the Orion badge. These are today only available in the second hand market, so represent excellent value for money.

Mental.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:29 AM
rrussell1962
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I have the 42mm, 13mm and 8mm LVW's and like them a lot. They have good eye relief and are nice and sharp. I believe the Baader Hyperions are a similar design and a good bit cheaper. I have not tried out the Baader's so can't comment on how they compare.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:49 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Hyperions are not the same eyepiece!

Baader designed these to match SCT & Mak optical designs. They perform poorly in Newts & refractors. The only exception is the 5mm that is a different design to the others & does well in fast Newtonians. The only Hyperion I now own is the 5mm. I've used it in my 8" f/4 Newtonian & it is a fantastic eyepiece. It is a common misconception that Hyperions are the same eyepiece as the LVW. If you look carefully at all the glowing reports on them, all these reports are using SCT's and Maks!!! I made the mistake of not being careful enough to notice this and it cost me a bomb learning the hard way. The great positive out of this experience was it made me aware of the scope-to-eyepiece design compatability that is not understood enough.

If you have a Mak or SCT, Hyperions are a great eyepiece. If you have a Newtonian, only the 5mm will work.

The Celestron Ultima LX line is similar to the Hyperions in that they designed to match SCTs. They are a poor match to Newts. I have the 8mm & 13mm of these &only use them in my C8. Great eyepieces here.
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:37 AM
rrussell1962
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Thanks Alex, that is very useful to know. I must admit I had not noticed the pattern of telescope use in the reviews.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:06 AM
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I have the 3.5mm LVW and it works very well in my 200mm f/5 Newt for planetary.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:47 PM
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Saturn%5 (Graeme)
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Thankyou all I think i will give them a try, Had a look around at other reviews they seem to perform well.

Graeme.
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:30 PM
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Graeme, the LVW's are an excellent line of eyepieces, even when considering their vintage. I have the 13mm which performs well in my f/5 TV refractors. Although the 13mm LVW is outclassed compared to my 14mm Delos (ie. sharpness, clarity, throughput, edge of field, flatness), to my eyes, the 13mm LVW is a more comfortable eyepiece to use vs. the 14mm Delos (even though both are 20mm ER). For me, eye placement is more critical in the Delos, so it takes more getting used to.

I also had the opportunity to try the 24mm, 13mm and 8mm Orion Stratus eyepieces which are the (much) cheaper LVW copies (like the Hyperions). Take it from me, the Orions are nice in many ways but definitely several rungs inferior to the original Vixen LVW's - you get what you pay for.

Fox
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:00 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Hi Fox,

There is one other thing that confuses the issue with LVW's and any copies or similarities. The Orion Lanthanum Superwides I mentioned are LVW's rebadged - I have the 22mm Orion Superwide and compared it to a mate's 22mm LVW - exactly the same. These Orion Superwides were made for only a short time, which is why they are now only available in the second hand market. The Orion Stratus is a rebadged Hyperion. I have seen all of these, and used them. The Orion variants on the originals all perform exactly the same as the originals. Here in lies the problem of model copying - what are the differences??? Most differences are just minor, mainly just changes to the casing, maybe the coatings (?). Change anything more and it means a complete redesign of the optics and any financial gain is lost as it means a totally new optical design.

Celestron has recently launched a 'new' line, the Duo. From what I can see these are a total copy of the Hyperions. Not surprising really as the Hyperions are designed for SCT's. Even Saxon has a 'Hyperion' clone in its range, not often seen though.

Now, the up shot in all of this is, if 'brand' is most important, then go for the originals. If dollars are (and not all of us are in a financial position to be able to go original, nor may we want to), then consider the clone alternatives as in many cases they are the exact same piece - not always though, and it takes time to investigate the differences.
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:54 AM
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Thanks Alex.
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:51 AM
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Alex , on the Saxon/Hyperion I have an observing buddy here with the Saxon's that look like Hyperion's and they are good eyepieces , his 3.5mm Saxon is almost identical to look at as my Hyperion 3.5mm , just a few cosmetic differences but where it counts in the viewing these two are identical , as said a good eyepiece , maybe a little on the large size that some wont like .
Brian.
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Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post
Hi Fox,

There is one other thing that confuses the issue with LVW's and any copies or similarities. The Orion Lanthanum Superwides I mentioned are LVW's rebadged - I have the 22mm Orion Superwide and compared it to a mate's 22mm LVW - exactly the same. These Orion Superwides were made for only a short time, which is why they are now only available in the second hand market. The Orion Stratus is a rebadged Hyperion. I have seen all of these, and used them. The Orion variants on the originals all perform exactly the same as the originals. Here in lies the problem of model copying - what are the differences??? Most differences are just minor, mainly just changes to the casing, maybe the coatings (?). Change anything more and it means a complete redesign of the optics and any financial gain is lost as it means a totally new optical design.

Celestron has recently launched a 'new' line, the Duo. From what I can see these are a total copy of the Hyperions. Not surprising really as the Hyperions are designed for SCT's. Even Saxon has a 'Hyperion' clone in its range, not often seen though.

Now, the up shot in all of this is, if 'brand' is most important, then go for the originals. If dollars are (and not all of us are in a financial position to be able to go original, nor may we want to), then consider the clone alternatives as in many cases they are the exact same piece - not always though, and it takes time to investigate the differences.
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:20 PM
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Graeme,

I have a set of LVW's and use little else after selling the rest I had. They are definitely superior to Baader Hyperions, optically, however cost more, too. There are a few clones such as the Orion and others but all the clones are DEFINITELY inferior to the LVW's, having had the chance to do some side-by-side tests both on my make and faster scopes including typical dobs up to Alex's 13" BTW I have had a 6" f/5 newtonian many years ago, and these days I use a side-by-side mount and two 180mm Maks that fit on it.

In my case with these short, heavy Maks, the weight of these eyepieces is not an issue. But for you, on your 6" f/5 Newtonian I would not regard them as an ideal match.

For a 6" Newt .. optically, fine, but from a practical aspect, they're a problem for your scope - these are big and heavy, to the extent:

a) they will shift the centre of gravity of your scope well off-axis - to the extent balancing WILL be a significant issue unless you add a counterbalance weight on the opposite side.

b) the weight will place a lot of strain on your focusser and the tube supporting it; if flimsy its going to flex to the extent the eyepiece may droop visibly, this means its no longer coaxial with the optics and the result may be a bit of a problem achieving a good focus across the field of view at all orientations in the sky.

On the plus side...

a) the 20mm eye relief is great (I wear specs)

b) 65° AFoV is enough. I care more about image quality than the fishbowl effect of the ultra wide eyepieces. Secondly, having the black fieldstop in your field of vision IMHO does help with your night vision - and faint fuzzies - when observing in light-polluted skies typical of suburbia. In this respect a narrow AFoV eyepiece may show more on faint objects in surbubia because it blocks more of the superfluous background sky, and your dark adaptation is better. An ultra wide eyepiece is often not such a smart choice IMHO.

c) their weight is consistent enough across the whole set from 3.5 to 42mm so you won't need to rebalance after swapping eyepieces.

Suggestion:

1. stick to smaller, lightweight 1.25" eyepieces
2. the focal lengths you require range from 4mm to 30mm.

If you want a budget set, a good match for your scope are Edmund RKE's, these were originally designed to match the Edmund Astroscan and are an excellent match for an f4 to f/5 scope. The set runs from 8mm to 28mm.

Ata later date if 8mm isn't enough, you could add a 6 and 4mm orthoscopic, or similar Televue Radians, if you really find the need (I personally doubt it.)

Last edited by Wavytone; 05-09-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:35 PM
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Hi Graeme,

Getting back to your original post, the Vixen LVW’s are an excellent eyepiece, although there may be others to chose from.

Whilst the Baader Hyperion and Orion Stratus are cheaper alternatives, as Alex said, are apparently not the same design, and the Stratus’s I looked at in my f/5 TV scopes (pretty demanding f/ ratio) were clearly outclassed by my 13mm LVW and certainly not in the league of the TV and Pentax in my (small) collection. Thus, my experience reflects (no pun intended) Alex’s comments - it seems the Hyperions/Stratus’s (apart form the 5mm) are better suited for Maks and SCT’s…

Having said that, two of my close friends, who are beginners in astronomy, love their Skywatcher ED80 refractors and Orion Stratus EP’s that I recommended. IMHO the Stratus’s do the job they are intended for: 65 deg FOV, 20mm ER, comfortable to use, for a fair price.

I had no idea about the Orion Lanthanum Superwides, never seen one, very curious indeed…

Other alternatives might be the Explore Scientific 65 deg FOV range of EPs, although I wonder how suited they are with f/6 Newts. Also, I guess the TV Delos and XW Pentax’s come to mind if you are able to afford something at that level.

Wavy raises a very important point: the LVW’s, Delos and Pentax are quite heavy for a Newt configuration. Something that does not bother the refractor or SCT visual user.

Graeme, have you priced what new LVW’s are going for these days, out of interest, how much?

Cheers
Fox

Last edited by Fox; 06-09-2014 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:52 PM
Wavytone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
the LVW’s, Delos and Pentax are quite heavy for a Newt configuration.
Ad to that lot - Explore Scientific eyepieces (all), TV Panoptics and the larger Naglers.
Also the Vixen LV30mm and LV50mm (both big 2" eyepieces the size of a house brick), both unsuited to a fast Newtonian.

For a rather unique experience with a 6" f/5 newtonian try the Edmund RKE 28mm... there is nothing else quite like it, and its design is optimised for a short f/5 Newtonian.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:54 PM
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Hi Graeme

Just a bit more research...

I note that VTI Optics has the Pentax SMC XF 8.5mm and 12mm Lanthanum eyepieces for around $200 each. They are 18mm eye relief, 60 deg FOV and 150gm weight (relatively light). Although I have no idea how suited they might be for an f/5 Newt, if memory serves me correctly I believe the XF's are highly rated - at least as good as the TV Radians (I've owned a Radian before, a very good eyepiece with very flat field in my f/5 TV Genesis).

Also at VTI Optics, the Explore Scientific 16mm (68 deg FOV) is around $180 and weighs 160gm.

Compare these weights to the Delos 14mm weighing in at 400gm, and the Vixen LVW 13mm weighing in at 390gm.

I realise the Pentax XF and ES 16mm are probably heavier than the Edmund RKE's, but the RKE's I think are more budget, simpler design, and around 45 deg FOV ?

Wavy, is a 150-160gm eyepiece still too heavy for an f/5 Newt?

Cheers
Fox

Last edited by Fox; 06-09-2014 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:16 AM
ausastronomer (John Bambury)
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Hi Graeme,

The Vixen LVW's are excellent eyepices and you will be very happy with them. Don't forget about TV Radians on the used market. These can be picked up at good prices now that the Delos is around. In the shorter focal lengths these have more focal length options than the LVW's and if forced to separate them in terms of optical performance I would give the nod marginally to the Radians over the LVW's, but they are both excellent and a clear grade above Baader Hyperions and the like. Some of the ES eyepieces are very good but their eye relief and comfort isn't quite there for mine and their EOF performance in a 6"/F5 newt will not be near as good as the Radian or the LVW.

Cheers
John B
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:41 AM
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Wavy, Fox, & John
Big thankyou for your input, It has got me thinking about some points you guys have raised.

Wavy on the focuser I wont have an issue with the weight of the ep causing any movement, I have loaded it up with my slr even put the flash unit on it and grip i think it came in around 650grams and was still very solid and no movement but i think balance was alittle tricky but got there in the end.

Fox. I have priced a 13mm it was $289 plus postage from My Astro Shop i buy all my stuff there from Steve he just makes it all to easy.

John thanks for the input all taken onboard and will see what i can come up with, I am not in a rush to do this I want to get it right the first time, but if i don't then maybe the wife can get me another scope been looking at what Mental makes

And a big thanks to all the others that gave me some ideas, I will report back once i put some ideas into action.

Cheers

Graeme.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:54 AM
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The XF12mm has significant field curvature. In a small f/5 scope it will be nice on axis but stars near the edge are just a blur. And the curvature is noticeable from around 50% from the centre.

The XF8.5 is much better and is an excellent eyepiece.
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