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Old 04-12-2017, 07:37 PM
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Shiraz (Ray)
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TELSTRA (not Tesla) 1GWh distributed battery

Telstra soon expect to have a huge capacity sitting there in backup batteries that could be used for a variety of purposes, including turning them into a big player in stabilising the National energy grid. Presumably to make money. One more cool idea..
http://reneweconomy.com.au/telstra-u...-teslas-29761/

Cheers Ray
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:55 PM
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Not really surprising. Tesla’s “big battery” is nothing special technologically.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:12 AM
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I want a battery bank so I can buy power off peak and sell it back when the demand is high.
Alex
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I want a battery bank so I can buy power off peak and sell it back when the demand is high.
Alex
Hi Alex,

The sell price/feed in rate (tarrif) is not that great (5 to 11.5c per kWh, with Victoria soon or already at 11.5c /kWh, post July 2017). I don't think that you can buy electricity that cheap unless you're Alcoa or the like. Also allowing for/amortizing the cost of your plant over its life will degrade any meager buy/sell margin even further.

There was a time, when there were feed-in-tarrif inducements to go solar in the order of 66c /KWh !!!!! (I think in NSW, but also lesser amounts in other states??), however; at that time solar systems were nowhere near as inexpensive as what they are now. I think solar + batteries are a great idea for one's own power need. At current electricity pricing it makes far more sense to use one's own solar generated power, first to run domestic needs, second to charge one's own battery bank and lastly to feed any excess back in to the grid. Doing so will reduce system energy losses and reduce net cost.

It's also beneficial to ,where possible, reorganise the daily load so that it more closely matches the solar system's contemporaneous electrical energy production, i.e: reorganise to more closely use the electrical energy as it's produced, rather than charge any batteries or sell back any electricity.

Best
JA

Last edited by JA; 05-12-2017 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:10 AM
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I think it was opportunity missed not to require those putting panels on their roof not to also pit in batteries.
It called a battery bank for a reason .. You get out what you put in (some is lost for various reasons) but in my view it would be a most helpful way to educate folk on where their power goes.

Alex
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:14 AM
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With large banks becoming available we may see companies getting their own banks, particularly if we have a few business losing cash flow due to black outs..er sorry what's it called..power outage.
In Casino Aldi have so many panels I can't count them all, and to me it would make sense, maybe even profitable, to use battery storage.
Alex
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I think it was opportunity missed not to require those putting panels on their roof not to also pit in batteries.
It called a battery bank for a reason .. You get out what you put in (some is lost for various reasons) but in my view it would be a most helpful way to educate folk on where their power goes.

Alex
Lead acid banks with every solar install, great idea!
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:00 PM
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Lead acid banks with every solar install, great idea!
Yes I thought so.

It would be a start I feel.

And we start a market which attract new players to provide a better product.

Alex
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:19 PM
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I'm not sure why we are still talking about panels when paint and coatings have already been proven to be effective and inexpensive.
Coating the top of a factory that operates in daylight will supply all the needs of that business.If you want to continue after dark, you put in some batteries.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:13 PM
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I'm not sure why we are still talking about panels when paint and coatings have already been proven to be effective and inexpensive.
Coating the top of a factory that operates in daylight will supply all the needs of that business.If you want to continue after dark, you put in some batteries.
Where can I get this paint?
Alex
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:36 PM
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Lead acid banks with every solar install, great idea!

Why choose lead acid over Li-Ion?

Last edited by luka; 06-12-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:54 PM
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Melbourne Uni.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jenchris View Post
I'm not sure why we are still talking about panels when paint and coatings have already been proven to be effective and inexpensive.
Coating the top of a factory that operates in daylight will supply all the needs of that business.If you want to continue after dark, you put in some batteries.
Where can I buy the paint your referencing, how much is it a liter? I would love to get the roof "working" for me, producing power.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:07 AM
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Why choose lead acid over Li-Ion?
Most people have limited budgets and its a hell of a lot cheaper to run Lead Acid unless of course, your house is a caravan (mobile) then Li-Ion becomes the obvious choice.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:09 AM
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They don't want to market the paint yet.
It would destroy the energy sector financially.
The printable cells are being trialled in Newcastle this summer. 6 dollars a sq metre is the wholesale price of those.
They're about 20 times as cost effective as solar cells.
If you could buy the paint and a set of batteries, you could go off grid in about 4 hours.... forever. How would the economy work then?
The printable cells are at least renewable as they probably can be printed to have a use by date.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:06 PM
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Most people have limited budgets and its a hell of a lot cheaper to run Lead Acid unless of course, your house is a caravan (mobile) then Li-Ion becomes the obvious choice.
I think that it is not correct. Do you have any recent sources to back up that claim?

While lead-acid batteries are initially cheaper to buy, you also have to include the battery lifetime and performance. If this is included the Li-ion batteries have overtaken the lead acid batteries a few years ago and their price keeps going down every day as the technology advances.

1. Li-Ion are almost 98% efficient while lead-acid batteries loose almost 15% of power during each charge and also there are significant losses if they get discharged fast.

2. Lead acid batteries cannot be discharged below 60-ish % without a permanent damage to the batteries. So you get only 40% of usable storage capacity which kind-of defeats the whole point of using them as battery storage. Of course deep cycle lead-acid batteries exist but the price is much higher. On the other hand Li-Ions can be discharged down to 20% without any damage, i.e. you get double the storage capacity compared to a total-capacity-equivalent lead-acid battery.

3. Heat - lifetime of lead-acid batteries is significantly affected by heat. Over 40C is definitely a killer for them and we are in Australia. You will be lucky if you get more than few years of life out of them.

4. Cycle life - up to 4000 cycles for Li-ion vs up to 1000 cycles lead-acid. And this is tested under 20-25C ambient temperatures, the real-life performance of lead-acid batteries will be worse in Australian conditions as per my point 3.

Just look at the warranties. Tesla power wall gives 10 year warranty + optional 10 more years. Please find anything similar for the lead acid batteries.

Also to be mentioned is that lead-acid batteries have much higher environmental impact.

Buying lead-acid batteries may save you money in a short term but it is more economical to get Li-ion batteries nowadays. A few years ago it was the other way around but not any more.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:24 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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One more nail in the ADANI nightmare...
... and more proof to demonstrate the idiotic ideological drive of the idiots in charge of this country... Are we learning yet?
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:30 PM
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Submarine lead acid batteries ate totally serviceable.
Provided you have space for them. They're about 4 foot x 4foot by 3 feet each 2v cell.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:07 PM
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Submarine lead acid batteries ate totally serviceable.
Provided you have space for them. They're about 4 foot x 4foot by 3 feet each 2v cell.
I am wondering how much one of those would cost... and even worse, how much would the servicing cost.

By the way, Japan is already using Li-ion batteries instead of the old lead-acids in their new submarines and we are also considering similar change. Give it a few years and the old lead-acid submarine batteries may be very cheap once our submarines stop using them
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:02 PM
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We recenty installed a Tesla Powerwall 2.

Despite having 5kw of PV panels on our roof, our last energy bill was just over $1k. ( sadly no mains gas in out area...how ’effing typical of Sydney’s infrastructure) peak costs being some $0.52c per Kw/hr...very easy to run up a tab of about $10 a day.

The Tesla has been a revelation.

Next projected quarterly bill will likely be $90....if it’s sunny, maybe less! Sure the battery was not cheap, but based on ROI... A no brainer IMHO.
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