Is there an Electric Car in your future?

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by andyc

Nice one Peter W! Will look out for your shiny Tesla around the Shire We have a plug-in hybrid - a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. ................ Australia will not have a choice, but to follow, dragged kicking and screaming in to the 21st Century.

I didn't know there was an Outlander PHEV available...cool The Model 3 will be our shopping/runabout...slotted for an early October delivery.

We were in Norway recently, the uptake of EV's there was phenomenal. Most public car parks had charging stations. The government there gives tax incentives to buy an EV, free parking, toll road waivers and free registration.

In Oz you get zero incentives, plus get slugged a luxury car tax....to protect our non-existent local industry Shameful really.

With a 600km range the Model 3 should not need charging more than once a week.

A single phase charger will charge it from flat to full overnight...

[The_bluester (Paul)]

The Outlander PHEV has been around for a couple of years but Mitsubishi never seems to have made much noise about it.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Tesla already have a battery swap regime, though I take your point.

That said, the residual value of any car is terrible after 5 years.

In 45 years of car ownership I've only owned two cars that increased in value.

My Morris 1100s (what a shocker) paid $250, sold it for $450...plus my red car from Maranello that doesn't get driven much

Congratulations on your new car.
You do know that you should never have sold the Morris 1100.
Alex

[doppler (Rick)]

If you take in the cost of the electric cars fuel source ie batteries, and their replacement cost after 10 years or so, is there that big a running cost difference. I use about $50 a week in petrol which over 10 years is $25000 about the same cost as Tesla is offering its current customers for replacement batteries?

[pmrid (Peter)]

I just had a quick look at the new hybrid Toyota Corollas - priced mid 30s. I was interested to see what sort of towing capacity it had in the hybrid form. The answer is NONE. The conventionally powered version had an unbraked towing capacity of a bare 450 Kgs - probably a small tinnie, trailer and motor without much more. But no rating at all (either braked or unbraked) quoted for the hybrids.

The Prius variants do not even quote a towing capacity in their specifications. You have to get up into the Rav4 range to get a towing capacity for the hybrid form.

That could be a real drawback to the all-electric or hybrid buyer appeal. I don't know if the average Australian buyer would rate this as significant but I would. I will buy my next car (downgrading from a big Amarok) with towing capacity very much in mind.

Peter

[glend (Glen)]

Peter, if we are realistic about how they market vehicles, the tow sector is not being targeted by EV makers. Whether your towing a boat, or are a contractor towing equipment, that sector is pretty much locked up tight by the Ute or in family use a large SUV. While Elon Musk has plans for an electric prime mover, it does not mean a mass market offering.
The tax advantages in Australia setup around "commercial" vehicles, ie the trades Ute, secure this sector in my opinion. The market for EVs is really aimed at commuters, young eco savey couples, and retirees (that can be pried out of Prados once they downsize). There are alot of retired folks running around in Hyundai and Kia vehicles up my way. These two brands are now the top two in the quality reporting rankings as well, ahead of all the prestige brands.
The Fed's need to pull their fingers out and get behind electric vehicles with subsidies to level the purchase decision.
And arguing about future battery costs is a distraction in my opinion. Aftermarket battery replacements will make this cost effective. We see this today with ebike batteries, and it is completely possible today to actually build your own replacement battery from parts you can buy online.
A new business opportunity will be created for battery replacement guys, that show up at your house or workplace with their van and swap out your battery pack. O'Brien's , Ultratune, etc would jump on that as a business line.
As I mentioned previously, Li-ion battery pack life span can be easily doubled by simply under charging the pack. Max charging actually damages the cell alittle, by chargung to say 85-90% maximun voltage you can double the useful life. So if you need say 350kms per week of range, do not stick the car on charges each time you get home, just charge enough to meet your needs. Overcharging is bad. I expect Jaycar will come out with a Smart Charger, to limit cell charge to the maximum life voltage as opposed to maximum range.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Glen, your points are all well made. I agree.

I am in the retirees going from big RV to "something smaller" category but in my case at least, I want to be able to go fishing in retirement. So the ability to drag a boat or a trailer full of garden waste is important to me. And I suspect to a majority of others in this category. I've been through my "grey nomad" period and have no intention of revisiting it. But that is another grouping of the market that puts a premium on towing capacity. And statistically, these two groupings I have just mentioned are significant.

It reinforces the point you make that there are sections of the market for which the ability to tow is welded on and which will keep the fossil-fueled vehicle going for a good while yet.

However, I have a cunning plan (with thanks to my friend Baldrick) - I'll buy my wife a hybrid Corolla when her current Corolla gets too long in the legs (any time soon). That'll let us keep up appearances with the tendy EVers. Then I can downsize my unwieldy Amarok to a small ute or similar for my retiree's pursuits. Nailed it!

Peter

[Sunfish (Ray)]

A Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a reasonable towing capacity. You can drive around the shops for 35km on battery only or take a long drive in hybrid mode. They are used as delivery vehicles to gain the tax advantage in the UK . They are expensive and ugly , but not as expensive as the same phev concept in BMW or Mercedes. Just well, a Mitsubishi, the most underrated vehicle.

With some solar panels you can plug in to do your shopping with no fuel required and still tow your boat. I am holding out for a fuel cell or exchange battery car as they do in Europe.

[glend (Glen)]

Peter mentioned his need for a small Ute. What is a "small Ute" these days? I tend to think of the old Subaru Brumby, which I still see now and then. If your old enough to remember the old VW utes, think of a minibus without the high sides, roof, and windows; it had a high load bed and a battery pack would fit nicely under there. Might be a market opportunity.
Is "Small" now defined by the Dodge Ram Pick Up Trucks, which the ads portray towering over a lowly Hilux. Powered by a Hemi V8 of course. The ulimate Tradie status symbol.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by glend

Peter, if we are realistic about how they market vehicles, the tow sector is not being targeted by EV makers. Whether your towing a boat, or are a contractor towing equipment, that sector is pretty much locked up tight by the Ute or in family use a large SUV. While Elon Musk has plans for an electric prime mover, it does not mean a mass market offering.

It will come ...... eventually.


Ford demonstrated an electric F150 recently towing a million pounds. EV's with all their torque have alot of power for towing!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlIfWcCJdI

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Kal

It will come ...... EV's with all their torque have alot of power for towing!

....

Indeed Diesel Electric trains have been THE way to pull seriously heavy loads for decades...with diesel motors powering, gosh golly, ELECTRIC motors. (Just like their steam powered forebears, Electric trains have max torque at min RPM)

This is why a Tesla performance Model 3 can smoke a seriously expensive BMW M3 any day of the week.

[atkinsonr (Rich)]

I'd go a Porsche Taycan. 15 mins charge for 400kms. My current car doesn't do a lot more than 400kms to a tank.

[dikman (Richard)]

15 minute charge - good luck getting that at home.

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by dikman

15 minute charge - good luck getting that at home.

Porsche recently confirmed the car would be fitted with an 800-volt battery pack that will be compliant with a wall box for fast charging at home.

Sounds like a real grid sucker, even with a 15amp circuit feeding it. But then if you can afford that car do you really care about the cost of electricity. I can just imagine the overhead wires glowing in Mosman when they all plug in.

[raymo]

Glen, you're wrong about prime movers; one of America's largest interstate
haulage companies is taking delivery of its first 25 electric long haul trucks
which can pull a heavier load, and up steeper gradients, than any of their
diesel trucks, and have a range of 1100kms. They are made by the Daimler group.
The market for EVs is not aimed at any particular customer sector, they have
just chosen this part of the transport market as the place to start. All types
of vehicles will be offered over the next two or three years, and utes and
large SUVs are certainly not immune, and off at a tangent a bit, electric
boats are just starting to hit the market in all sizes. As a matter of fact my
son in law has just converted his 12 metre cabin cruiser to electric.
raymo

[dikman (Richard)]

Originally Posted by glend

I can just imagine the overhead wires glowing in Mosman when they all plug in.

800v, how many amps?? Even with a 15 amp cct. I doubt if you'll charge that beastie in a hurry. Doesn't really matter, though, as they'll most likely be owned by people who, while waiting for it to recharge will just get out their other conventional-engine Porsche.

[raymo]

No, Richard, its been my experience that generally the richer people become the tighter they become, so he would have another fully charged electric one waiting because a conventional one with that sort of power would use a lot of fuel.
raymo

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by raymo

No, Richard, its been my experience that generally the richer people become the tighter they become, so he would have another fully charged electric one waiting because a conventional one with that sort of power would use a lot of fuel.
raymo

Perhaps we are all being petty about that Porsche EV. Given the cost I would gladly accept a Jag i-pace and keep the change.

[Lucinda (Lucinda)]

Originally Posted by DuaneDibbley

Motorsport is hardly a dent in the total emissions from ICE vehicles and really not worth attacking. If you really want to make a difference we'd be stopping meat farming not worrying about drag races.

Yep, nail on the head right there.

A vegetarian with a Hummer towing his race car to the track every weekend has a lower carbon footprint than a meat eater riding a push bike.

Not that I am a vegetarian or anything.
Just say'n.

[Lucinda (Lucinda)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

BTW anybody watch Attenborough on the ABC tonight? Step up people.

Was that "The 11th hour" Peter?