Musk to build worlds fastest production car and it's electric.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Gday Ray
I notice the top gear link is from 2011, so not really fair????
To me its linked to modern advertising more than anything else.
Think sport ie football in Vic
In the old days, teams racked up wins and became good and people went to watch. Momentum grew "based on actual performance", and the media then proclaimed them good.
These days, paid media/propaganda proclaims something is good "and you should go and watch" just in case it is.
When electric cars go from propaganda to normal day to day reliability ( at an affordable cost ), it will all change.

Andrew

hi Andrew.

The Top Gear put-downs occurred in about 2011 and, like many such WWW memes, they have never been rescinded - as Musk's later video shows, the damage was lasting.

The Tesla supercar looks to me like an attempt to put to rest the impression that electric cars are inferior, by showing that they can be superior to the very best of the old technology in terms of "petrol head" measures of performance.

[xelasnave]

Hi Andrew
All you say is true.
But the electric driverless car hopefully will be the future and the fast and furious mentality be seen by all as a stupid selfish stand not worthy of a decent human.
I like that top gear is on so I can not watch it.
Alex

[AndrewJ]

Gday Ray

The Top Gear put-downs occurred in about 2011 and, like many such WWW memes, they have never been rescinded

Who cares????
Labor vs liberal
Ford vs Holden
Christianity vs Islam
Meataterian vs Vegan
If people base their lifes on what some one in the media "says is correct"
you will eventually come a cropper
Believe what "has happened", not something someone says "will happen"

Andrew

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Who cares????

I don't care Andrew, but Tesla clearly did.

Am just suggesting a possible reason why a low-volume high-cost project like the Tesla electric supercar came about. The car is the topic of the thread. It is an amazing idea, but has come about for cred reasons - it is not the main game.

[N1 (Mirko)]

I have a distinct feeling that this is not what a (personal) transport revolution looks like. He's basically just milked a little extra performance out of, and made some improvements to, technology that's been around for donkey's without addressing any of the motor vehicle's inherent faults. The most important being the crass misproportion of required energy versus kg's of meat moved.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Ray

I don't care Andrew, but Tesla clearly did.

I doubt it bothered Elon a jot ( all advertising is good )
Based on how the man appears to work, he was always going to push the limits of any technology he was playing with, and probably knew that an insane car would get buyers attention, irrespective of any "motoring commentators" comments. But at the end of the day, its not a practical car ( what supercars are ??? )
ie he probably knew that a car like this would get at least a few dozen buyers who dont care re price or anything else. They just want one, and the sheep will follow.

The biggest problem with general takeup has been ( and still is ) range and cost, pure and simple.

Andrew

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Well, if developing a "Very rich mans toy" hypercar helps push the development along the it is all for the good (Seems it is supposed to have a 200KWH battery pack, twice the current ones. It is hard to believe in the context of a hypercar they would live with the concept of simply doubling the size and mass of the battery)


It is interesting to note that despite all the fuss about Tesla cars (And I would admit that if I won tatts I would likely go out and buy a P100D without hesitation) by what I have read the most successful seller of electric cars worldwide is Nissan.

The next generation of the Leaf electric car is supposed to be pushing 400KM plus range, I have a lengthy work commute but if they had even three quarters of that in real life use (Winter, raining, reverse cycle heating and lights on) I could see myself looking at one. With the rise of renewable energy supply even the argument that EV's are just displacing emissions from the tailpipe to the Latrobe Valley (In the case of Vic) is loosing relevance.

[furgle (Adam)]

Call me a sheep, but I own a Tesla Model S P85D and it's fantastic. I previously owned a converted 2013 V8 Camaro, and while it was fun, the Tesla is leagues ahead.

I've never had a problem with range or charging. I've done trips to sydney, toowoomba, and noosa in it without any range anxiety.

Next year we are taking it to Mt Hotham. I'm not worried about charging along the way. With superchargers, destination chargers, my 3 phase portable charger (works at most showground and caravan parks), and standard household plug charger, there's no need to worry.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Adam

Your Tesla is not what i would call cheap for the sheep (yet), but it shows how the research is resulting in costs coming down.
ie The comments made by topgear 5 years ago were probaly correct "at the time" and massive advances have been made ( and continue to be made ) since then, I just doubt that their comments really affected any sales at the time. The product wasnt good enough.
Elon is going to keep pushing and good on him, and now countries are talking about banning IC engines, it is only going to go faster.
I suspect what happens in the next 5 years will make the last 5 years look pedestrian, esp if they can crack the storage costs.

Andrew
PS one side effect is going to be interesting.
My local Coles has just put in 2 dedicated Tesla charging bays
so it is going to speed up, however, they are 50% wider than the regular bays????

[Retrograde (Pete)]

Originally Posted by furgle

Call me a sheep, but I own a Tesla Model S P85D and it's fantastic. I previously owned a converted 2013 V8 Camaro, and while it was fun, the Tesla is leagues ahead.

I've never had a problem with range or charging. I've done trips to sydney, toowoomba, and noosa in it without any range anxiety.

Next year we are taking it to Mt Hotham. I'm not worried about charging along the way. With superchargers, destination chargers, my 3 phase portable charger (works at most showground and caravan parks), and standard household plug charger, there's no need to worry.

Congratulations - they are a beautiful car.
I was wondering how are your running costs? I suspect 'fuel' costs are pretty cheap?

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by doppler

It is illegal to learn how to actually handle a car in all driving situations, that's hooning.

Actually, it's called a "Defensive Driving Course", and it's highly recommended for all young drivers. Learn how to handle a car with / without anti-lock brakes on a skid-pan, effects of worn tyres, etc - all done in controlled conditions by professional instructors.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

It is an amazing idea, but has come about for cred reasons - it is not the main game.

The Tesla Model 3 (a conventional passenger car at an affordable price) is the "main game" for Tesla. They're currently having some big issues ramping up to full production (which is concerning traditional investors with short-term views), but I think these issues will be resolved within the coming months, and the "patient" investors with a longer-term view will be well rewarded.

Yes, the Roadster Mk II is quite ludicrous in some respects (as is "Ludicrous Mode" on the Model S), but it gains publicity, and demonstrates that there is no market where electric vehicles can't compete with internal combustion. Special projects like this also raise capital to fund the mainstream business.

There was a reason that the first Tesla (the original Roadster) was an expensive indulgence for rich wannabee racing drivers - and it wasn't because Elon Musk wanted to build racing cars. The rich buyers were prepared to pay a premium for an expensive and rather impractical toy, which was used to fund the Model S limousine (also a premium product, but competitively priced against other luxury saloons), and now we're seeing it trickle down to the Model 3, which is a car that most of us could imagine having in our garage. (I fully expect electric autonomous cars will be a pretty main-stream option for personal transport within a decade or so - if not sooner).

There will be no shortage of billionaires who are prepared to pay the US$250,000 to secure one of the 1,000 "Founder's Editions", so there's $250 million of other people's money that Musk can start spending on developing Tesla cars, trucks, and associated technology generally. Whether they get their hands on it by 2020 is to be seen - Musk has a habit of over-promising and under-delivering - but when he does deliver, it tends to redefine the status quo.

[furgle (Adam)]

Originally Posted by Retrograde

Congratulations - they are a beautiful car.
I was wondering how are your running costs? I suspect 'fuel' costs are pretty cheap?

Running costs are practically zero. I charge at work and that is a net gain as I get twice as much charge as I need, which gets me through the weekends. I can charge at home if needed though. Long trips are free within the supercharger network, and that gets bigger each year. I can currently drive from Brisbane to Adelaide for free (I'd rather fly though)

The only thing I need to spend money on is wiper fluid/blades, and tyres.

[Retrograde (Pete)]

Originally Posted by furgle

Running costs are practically zero. I charge at work and that is a net gain as I get twice as much charge as I need, which gets me through the weekends. I can charge at home if needed though. Long trips are free within the supercharger network, and that gets bigger each year. I can currently drive from Brisbane to Adelaide for free (I'd rather fly though)

The only thing I need to spend money on is wiper fluid/blades, and tyres.

Thanks Adam.
Given the fuel costs of most cars that's a substantial saving which offsets the up-front cost of the car.

[furgle (Adam)]

Given the 6 figure cost of the car, it's not really about the offset in fuel prices. I just like the tech, and the insane acceleration.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I think the real purpose of the Tesla is to help get people excited about electric cars so that hopefully when they get to something more like price parity people will actually consider buying them.

What is more likely to get people lining up to trade a petrol engine for electric, A G-Wiz or a P100D with Ludicrous mode? Even if what they will probably end up buying is a Nissan Leaf?

[xelasnave]

Apart from the batteries you would think an electric car should be cheaper...probably will be in time.
Once wood boats were cheap but after glass got going wood became much more expensive.
Alex

[xelasnave]

If one thinks how it must have been when everyone had a horse or horse and cart or carriage the appearance of the first cars would have been met with cries of too expensive and will never get wide appeal much like talk around the electric car...and add to that the difficulty in fuel acquisition they would have seemed only a novelty for the rich...
Alex

[furgle (Adam)]

The batteries are definitely the most expensive component. The typical household battery installation is 5kw. I forgot the minimum specs now, but last I heard Teslas now start at 70kw, so at least 14x the cost of a home battery system (not accounting for installation costs)

[bobson (Bob)]

Alex:

Now give the electric car a broooom broooom switch and perhaps you could win them over.

This is much cheaper option
https://youtu.be/OOu6d1XYUZY

Bob