life goes on in the US

[Shiraz (Ray)]

another shooting in the US. Only 26 dead this time and only one gun instead of the 23 used in Nevada - it was a military killing machine like this http://www.ruger.com/products/ar556/models.html. We have the assurance that tougher gun laws would have made no difference - the President said it, so it must be true.

The maker of the automatic gun stock used in the Nevada massacre is back on the market as well and business seems to be booming. https://www.npr.org/2017/11/07/56250...o-resume-sales

My daughter lives in Texas (same town the latest nut job came from). She is so worried that her kids will be killed by gunshot that she is going to bring them to Australia for their high school years. http://keranews.org/post/heres-what-...en-carry-texas

Can we please resist the pressure from the gun lobby and keep the insanity away from our country. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-2...nhjelm/7950732

cheers Ray

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

Here here

[casstony]

Having seen what happens in the US I think there's very little risk of Australians voting to flood our country with guns.

Shooting things with a camera is much more fun.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by graham.hobart

Here here

Originally Posted by casstony

Having seen what happens in the US I think there's very little risk of Australians voting to flood our country with guns.

Shooting things with a camera is much more fun.

Hopefully Tony, but what about the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party? - their policy could have been written by the NRA (maybe it was):

The Commonwealth Government has no Constitutional authority for the legislation and regulation of firearms laws other than those which apply to the Customs Act. Our firearms policies, Federal and State, are based on one fact: Criminals do not obey the law! As such, the vast majority of our rules and regulations must be focused on the illegal firearms market, not law abiding firearms owners.

Policies

- Repeal the 1996 National Firearms Agreement of COAG on the basis it has failed to increase public safety.
- Vehemently oppose the establishment of a Commonwealth Firearms Registry, or any other interference by the Commonwealth in the constitutional authority of the States to legislate the ownership and use of firearms.
- Establish a genuine reason for family and home protection for lawful possession of a firearm.
- Abolish the registration of category A and B firearms with savings to be reinvested into front line crime prevention.
- Remove Federal red tape regulation for firearms imports where relevant State and Territory requirements have been met.
- Support and promote Australian firearm manufacturers and suppliers for domestic supply and government contracts.
- Table a Bill outlawing animal liberation based hate campaigning and terrorism.
- Expand self-defence rights and non-lethal means of protection.
- Support and promote national education and safety programs for responsible firearms ownership and use.
- Increase funding to ‘Shooting Australia’.
- Introduce mandatory sentencing for Commonwealth firearms offences.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

Hopefully Tony, but what about the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party? - their policy could have been written by the NRA (maybe it was):

.... Our firearms policies, Federal and State, are based on one fact: Criminals do not obey the law! ....

I wonder how many mass killers have prior criminal records? Some certainly would but I suspect that the majority are law abiding citizens up until the moment they unleash their terror.

[raymo]

Ever since I first visited the U.S. in the late 1950s, and with every
subsequent visit, [some of which were quite extended] to numerous different areas, I have felt more and more that it is a beautiful land occupied
largely by insular ignoramuses that sincerely believe that the U.S. is
the be all and end all of everything. If it's not American it's third rate,
or worse. I am hoping to live long enough to see them eventually
realise to their horror, that China will probably eclipse them as the leading world power. This will probably get deleted.
raymo

[glend (Glen)]

The Roman's never saw the fall of Rome coming either.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

Hopefully Tony, but what about the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party? -
[/I]

There are small groups of nutters everywhere who feel their rights are being infringed upon.

People who have a legitimate use for a gun can already own one under current laws: my cousin does long range target shooting, farmers can have a gun for feral animals, etc.
There's simply no need for everyone to have a gun. I wouldn't mind being able to own pepper spray for self defence though.

[casstony]

Raymo, I feel the biggest difference between Americans and Australians is that the US is truly dominated by corporations who maintain a fearful, dog-eat-dog climate amongst the population. It's easier to be a millionaire and easier to end up living in poverty - bigger wealth divide.

Otherwise individual yanks are much the same as people here, even if they never studied geography

[traveller (Bo)]

the gun buy back is one of the better policies under Howard, but had bipartisan support. I wonder if our politicians will have the same maturity if something like that happens now, given the current personality politics being played out at the moment.

also worth remembering that America was born out of revolution/armed revolt against the British, so distrust of authority/government and self protection is part of their history.

agree with big corporations buying out capitol hill, but we are not that far behind here in Aust.

[raymo]

Tony, I have to say that Yanks in their own country are largely friendly
and helpful, [twice they helped me to empty my pockets], as opposed to many Yank tourists who can be quite obnoxious; thinking they have
something to prove, I suppose.
And yes, 27% of Yanks live on or below the poverty line.
Bo, you'd have thought that 250yrs was time enough to water down that sentiment a bit.
raymo

[el_draco (Rom)]

I lived there for a year back in the 80's. I left L.A. just as the riots began and spent a nerve wracking hour heading out of town towards Nevada whilst people were blasting each other on the freeways. Friggin insane.

On arrival in Nevada, there was an audible gasp when I admitted that, back in Oz, I didn't own a gun... For my own "safety", I was then instructed in the use of the guns that were kept in the "truck" I was given for my personal use; They INCLUDED a 9mm pistol, a long barrel magnum and a 12 guage, pump action shot gun. I declined the military style rifle... M16 from memory.

Bloody lunatic country!

[casstony]

Originally Posted by raymo

Tony, I have to say that Yanks in their own country are largely friendly
and helpful, [twice they helped me to empty my pockets], as opposed to many Yank tourists who can be quite obnoxious; raymo

I hope we don't get judged by the behaviour of young aussie males on tour

[Wavytone]

The current American culture is dreadful IMHO.

The majority of yank movies are so crude lately - mostly having plots along the line of “Lone hero saves the world - with his great big GUN”.

And their answer to everything is to shoot the problem - human or otherwise.

If the problem is large enough they send in the military.

The right to bear arms... has only one purpose.. shooting people ideally in large numbers. There is at the very least an implied right to carry out murder - which in limited circumstances is indeed the case in the US, thinly disguised as “accidental shooting”.

[raymo]

I hear what you're saying Tony; I am frequently embarrassed by the
behaviour of drunken Aussies [mainly between late teens and 50s] in
Bali, although it is a different type of obnoxiousness from the Yank
I want it, and I want it now type.
raymo

[Imme (Jon)]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

The current American culture is dreadful IMHO.

The majority of yank movies are so crude lately - mostly having plots along the line of “Lone hero saves the world - with his great big GUN”.

And their answer to everything is to shoot the problem - human or otherwise.

If the problem is large enough they send in the military.

The right to bear arms... has only one purpose.. shooting people ideally in large numbers. There is at the very least an implied right to carry out murder - which in limited circumstances is indeed the case in the US, thinly disguised as “accidental shooting”.

Wavytone....had to laugh as I read this and then saw your loving words about DHL in your signature.....there are exceptions right?

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Originally Posted by raymo

I hear what you're saying Tony; I am frequently embarrassed by the
behaviour of drunken Aussies [mainly between late teens and 50s] in
Bali, although it is a different type of obnoxiousness from the Yank
I want it, and I want it now type.
raymo

Speaking from personal experience, Aussies do pretty well abroad IMO, you might curse them now but that’s one of the reasons I seized the opportunity to visit! Wish I could say the same for my own nationals...no aspirations can come from their actions these days.

The cultures on the other sides of the big pond are very different...it’d be nice if Australia was left to develop its own future rather than imbibe too much of the Cool-Aid...it’s just sugar, salt and water after all but the global media seems determined to commercialise everything. I’m over Amazon already

[blindman]

GUN MURDERS DRIVEN BY POVERTY AND INEQUALITY, NOT GUN AVAILABILITY
https://ssaa.org.au/news-resources/r...n-availability

Keep in mind probably half of recently shootings were hoax anyway.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by blindman

GUN MURDERS DRIVEN BY POVERTY AND INEQUALITY, NOT GUN AVAILABILITY
https://ssaa.org.au/news-resources/r...n-availability

Keep in mind probably half of recently shootings were hoax anyway.

good point - there is clearly more at play than just gun availability, since some countries with high gun ownership have much lower homicide rates than the USA.

In general though, I cannot see that military weapons have any place in normal society and the succession of mass slayings could not have taken place if those weapons were simply not available. For crying out loud, the Bushmaster site advertises a 50cal sniper rifle with silencer https://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/...ion/ba50-rifle That thing is designed for a single purpose and it isn't rabbit shooting. Some (maybe most) weapons have no positive value in a modern society and the police forces in the US must be at their wits end trying to work out how to deal with them. I am hopeful that the worst aspects of the US infatuation with guns does not take hold here and that we keep strong laws that completely outlaw military style weapons.

as for some shootings being hoaxes, the victims' families may have a different perspective.

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

I think a problem within the USA is that they do not have enough Annual Leave (my understanding is only 2 weeks.) So the average citizen does not have enough time to travel, see the World and obtain a better understanding of it. This leads to a very inward looking society. Those who do travel are mainly students or retirees.

We have in better in Oz, although I also have major reservations on how some Aussies behave when abroad.

Do U know that we are the only nation that has Long Service Leave? (It is a hangover from the old days when the bureaucracy gave Government workers enough time to see the old country:- England. A month to travel there, a month to be there and a month to travel back, every 10 years.)

LSL is outdated, and now that I am retired; it should go.